Transcript
Brett McKay:
Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the AOM Podcast, which since 2008 has featured conversations with the world’s best authors, thinkers, and leaders that glean their edifying, life-improving insights without the fluff and filler. The AOM Podcast, just one part of the McKay mission to help individuals practice timeless virtues through though, word, and deed. Also, be sure to explore articles on artofmanlies.com, read the deeper dives we do in our Substack newsletter at dyingbreed.net, and turn our content into real world action by joining the StrenuousLife Program at strenuouslife.com. Now on to the show. If you’ve been following the Art of Manlies for a while, you know that I typically interview the authors of books on this podcast. But if you’ve been following the Art of Manlies for a while, you’ll know why I had to make an exception for today’s guest. Brandon Flowers is my very favorite musical artist.
He’s the front man for the multi-platinum record-earning band, The Killers, and has also put out three solo albums. I recently had the chance to talk to Brandon backstage before one of his shows in Las Vegas. My wife, Kate, as well as a couple of our friends were also on hand, and you’ll hear me allude to them a couple of times during the interview. Brandon and I had a great conversation. We discussed his third and latest solo album, Thrasher, and guys, it is a good one, and why he went country western on it, what his dad taught about what makes a good man, what he’s currently reading, hint and involves the author of my all-time favorite novel, his top five favorite country songs, the influence of faith in his life and music, what’s on his mind in midlife, and how he balances work and family. After the show’s over, check out our show notes at aom.is/brandonflowers.
All right, Brandon Flowers, welcome to the show.
Brandon Flowers:
Thank you.
Brett McKay:
So for people who have been listening to the podcast or reading the website AOM for the past 18 years, they know I’m a huge killers fan and a huge fan of your work. So this is a treat for me. You got a new solo album out?
Brandon Flowers:
Yes.
Brett McKay:
First one in 11 years?
Brandon Flowers:
It’s been 11 years, yeah. And I can’t believe we’re also playing stuff from the first record, which is –
Brett McKay:
Flamingo.
Brandon Flowers:
17 years ago. Wow. And because we’re playing in Vegas, we’ve opened with a song called Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas. That’s
Brett McKay:
A great one.
Brandon Flowers:
That’s from that record. And I was taken back kind of that it’s so old and that I was so young when it came about and I’m like, it’s kind of awesome. I don’t remember writing this thing, but it’s like, damn, it’s holding up. It’s weird to play a song called Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas in Toronto. Anyway, it’s been fun. Those are little treats.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, coming full circle.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. I’m just starting off bragging about myself. Sorry. I just was really happy to play it again and it was a surprise too.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, that’s great. So this new album, you go Country Western.
Brandon Flowers:
Yes.
Brett McKay:
Which for a lot of people who know your work with The Killers, they’re like, “That’s kind of a departure.” So why a Country Western album and why now?
Brandon Flowers:
I mean, there are little seeds or little crumbs along the way, I think, peppered in through Killer’s music. But I think just as I get older, I am gravitating. They talk about becoming your parents and it’s inevitable in some senses to… It’s just there are things that you do that are sort of in your blood, I think. And my dad, this was his music. And to me also, when I was four or five years old, they had me, I was a little bit of a surprise. And so he was older and he looked like those guys. And he had the pork chop sideburns and was ripping Marlboros on the couch and he just sort of had that vibe about him. And I think it’s weird how that stuff, it sticks with you.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, it does. I’ve noticed that too in my life as I got into my 40s. I’ve been picking up style stuff from my dad, like the Casio watch. He had that. I’m like, “I need a Casio watch.” Or Wrangler jeans. I didn’t wear Wranglers growing up and now I’m wearing Wranglers now. So the name of the album is Thrasher. What’s the story behind that?
Brandon Flowers:
There’s a little bit of sadness underlying in the title. It’s a bold title, but going back to my dad, there was a culture shock. When I was eight, we moved from Henderson, Nevada to a little town called Payson, Utah. Payson, Utah’s claim to fame is footloose.
And Jewel was born there. Those are the two things. And I was eight and I was in the fourth grade and I talk about it in the show as an anecdote that helps reveal more context about a song that we play, but I got beat up a little bit. But it was fourth grade. It wasn’t misery, but it was embarrassing and it was emasculating. And my dad was born in 1944 and not educate, dropped out of school in the ninth grade. And he grew up fighting and he was going to teach me how to fight. And I knew while he was explaining it to me, I still remember. I remember the truck that we were in, I remember the road, just knowing it didn’t matter what he was telling me. It wasn’t going to work and I wasn’t going to apply what he was teaching me.
And I knew that. And then later on, we moved to another town where they would talk about thrashing someone to thrash someone in a fight was to win a fight. And that is where Thrasher comes from is I’m playing my father’s music and I feel like I’ve become a Thrasher in another sense. I found my way to land jabs
And hooks.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. Have you been given similar advice to your boys? You’ve got three teenage boys.
Brandon Flowers:
Opposite advice. Jesus advice to
Brett McKay:
The boys. Oh, Jesus. Turn the other cheek.
Brandon Flowers:
Yes. And especially with just everybody doing MMA, I explained it to them. Dude, don’t mess with anyone. You don’t know what is going to happen. As soon as somebody picks you up, you are at the mercy of whatever is on a curb, your head could hit the curb. I just tell them, dude, just get the hell away from fighting.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, that’s good advice. Well, I mean, speaking of your dad, I mean, it seems like he’s had a big influence on you. He shows up in some of your other songs as well as your mother. What did your dad teach you about being a man?
Brandon Flowers:
I think a lot. There’s a lot. I should have gotten more prepared for the Art of Manites. I did think of something though. There’s a sweet thing that I’ve been kind of waiting, and I haven’t worked out the arc of the story, but there’s this beautiful thing that I like to think about with my dad. And again, back to that move to Payson, I got a BB gun that first Christmas when I was eight, and it was my first white Christmas and I got the whole Red Rider gun. And I was so thrilled to have this thing. And we had a shed in the backyard and he worked at Smith’s Food King. He was in the produce department and that was just what he always did. And one day he came home with a stack of targets and it had Saddam Hussein’s face on it.
And the target was during the desert storm. It was
Brett McKay:
The desert storm, right. Yeah. And
Brandon Flowers:
So I would tack it to the shed and shoot at Saddam’s face in the backyard. But there’s just something poignant that came to me late. There was also this time when there were these cocoons inside the shed and damn, this makes me emotional just thinking about it. And he discovered these cocoons and he took me in and showed me the cocoons and we would check in on them every now and then until the day that one day we came in and they had become butterflies and were gone. And it’s like the juxtaposition of that and the duality of that, the things that it was this manly thing of shooting at something and then look at how beautiful this nature is. And I just thought that’s what I think about when thinking about my dad, things like that. He had both of those sides. He was hard, his hands were strong and his whiskers, I remember feeling his whiskers, but he also has a real tenderness to him too.
And I think those two things make a good man.
Brett McKay:
I think so. I agree with you 100%. So with Thrasher, it’s country western and country music, it lends itself well to storytelling. And it seems like when I listen to your music, you’re in your element when you’re telling stories. Is that right?
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. It’s a beautiful part of the tradition of country music. And I always told stories and it just always made sense to me to tell stories in songs. And I think it really set us apart in the early days. You can hide behind ambiguity and I got away with murder sometimes with a little bit of that, but a lot of times there would be stories going on, a coherent start and finish. And I think that ties back to this other education from the music that I was hearing from him. Yeah.
Brett McKay:
And Thrasher, all the songs, they’re inspired from stories from your life, right?
Brandon Flowers:
Yes.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. And you get really particular with them. Yes.
Brandon Flowers:
It was funny. During COVID, we made two COVID records, The Killers, and one was called Imploding the Mirage, and then the other was called Pressure Machine where I really zeroed in on this town that I grew up in.
Brett McKay:
It was Nephi, right?
Brandon Flowers:
Nephi. Yeah. There’s a Sherwood Anderson book.
Brett McKay:
Well, and also John Steinbeck.
Brandon Flowers:
Right. Yeah. So there’s Weinsburg, Ohio, and it’s a bunch of short stories that take place in the same town. And then Steinbeck has one called Pastors of Heaven.
Brett McKay:
That’s a great book. I read that. So
Brandon Flowers:
Cool.
Brett McKay:
It’s awesome. Yeah.
Brandon Flowers:
And so I was like, I’m going to try to do this undertaking and I’m going to do it in Nephi. It’s what I know. And I just started writing about it and I just couldn’t believe how much I had to say and how many feelings I had about that place still and how many memories and weird little traumas and weird little jokes and all of these things. And it makes sense now with twenty twenty hindsight because with The Killers, I’m an ambassador for Las Vegas and we are a Las Vegas band, we’re waving the flag, and that’s what people associate us with. And rightly so, it’s where we’re from. But it made me keep these things sort of under wraps or it was like a secret.
Brett McKay:
And what I find, as I was listening to Thrasher, these stories are very personal and you have these personal details and you think, well, how could something so personal appeal to everybody? But I found when I listen to these songs, I’m like, I see myself in these songs.
Brandon Flowers:
It’s weird how that happens. I think they attribute it to Scorsese, this quote, but it goes further back, but that the most personal is the most creative.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. Or James Joyce said, “In the particular, you find the universal.”
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. Similar. And so there is something about that is very true. And I can’t believe that I’m able to explore these things and reach inside and tell these stories and how broad it’s able to go.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. I mean, what’s great about your storytelling in songwriting is that it can cause someone to feel something even if they never experienced that exact same thing. And then also it can trigger memories of having experienced something similar, like Tiger’s Blood. The first time I heard that song, I instantly went back in time and saw myself and I knew exactly what you were talking about, the Country Crossroads. I’ve been to those weird convenience stores in the middle of nowhere where you go buy fishing bait and then there’s a Mortal Combat arcade machine somewhere in the corner. I though that was awesome.
Brandon Flowers:
Country Crossroads was just a little burger joint and there was a Mortal Kombat machine there. And like you said, it’s just for whatever reason, even if you never encountered a Mortal Combat machine, it’s me saying it and you see it and you still understand what’s happening and it’s a funny thing how it ripples out.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. And then the song is just like a gut punch, like that line, “No one ever thinks they’ll be lonely when they’re all grown up. They’re just living their best life.” I remember, oh geez. I remember being a teenager and it’s always going to be like this and it’s not. It’s just sad. So I want to talk about this idea. So you mentioned you were inspired by John Steinbeck.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah.
Brett McKay:
You seem like a pretty well read guy because I’ve seen it. I’m listening to lyrics and I’m like, “Okay, you drop William Blake poetry.” That
Brandon Flowers:
Comes directly from Daniel Lamois, who’s a big collaborator with U2. And I think he’s just trying to, without telling me where Bono’s getting his stuff, he would be like, “Just bring a William Blake book and put it on my lap,” that kind of stuff. That’s where that kind of stuff would come from. But my family weren’t big readers. I remember we read the Pearl in fifth grade. So that was my intro, my gateway into that. And then you read On the Road and you think you’re supposed to read the beats, that kind of beat poetry stuff. And I knew that that wasn’t me. I just wasn’t going to… I get why people are attracted to it. There’s the rock and roll authors, which is awesome that it led me back to people like Steinbeck that are like, “This feels more relatable and is more my guy.”
Brett McKay:
Yeah. Are you a reader now? Do you make time for reading?
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m not wildly. I take it slowly. It’s almost like methodical, but I look forward to it every night.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. What’s on your nightstand lately?
Brandon Flowers:
So it’s been Larry McMurtry. Oh,
Brett McKay:
Man.
Brandon Flowers:
So I’m finishing the –
Brett McKay:
Okay.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah.
Brett McKay:
Okay. Tell me, which one are you finishing?
Brandon Flowers:
The tetralogy? Is that
Brett McKay:
What we call it? The Lonsome Dove.
Brandon Flowers:
I went backwards.
Brett McKay:
Okay.
Brandon Flowers:
And so I’m at the first book right now. So I started on, what is it? It’s the Streets of Laredo.
Brett McKay:
That’s the final one.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. I started on Streets of Laredo.
Brett McKay:
I
Brandon Flowers:
Went backwards.
Brett McKay:
You were going backwards. Okay. That’s interesting way to do it. Because that was the last book you
Brandon Flowers:
Wrote. Yeah. So I read Streets of Laredo and I didn’t know what I was getting. I didn’t understand that I was in the Tetralogy yet. And then it was like, oh, Lonesome Dove and then Comanche Moon. And those three just have knocked my socks off. Yes. And so far, I think it’s called Dead Man’s Walk, I’m waiting for it to kick in, but I’m like, oh.
Brett McKay:
It’s not the best one.
Brandon Flowers:
It doesn’t feel like it’s going to… Hopefully, but I still am so… Gus McCray is my best friend.
Brett McKay:
Oh my gosh. Okay. Listen, listen. Okay. I got to tell you about Lonesome Dove. It is my all time favorite novel. I love this book. I’ve read it five or six times. I’ve done a book club with it with 800 people. I recommend it to everybody. I named my son Gus.
Brandon Flowers:
Oh wow.
Brett McKay:
After Augustus McCray. So I got into Gustus McKay. So yeah, I love this book and I’m really glad that you’re reading it. And it’s a great book to be reading while you’re touring a country western album.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. And I really, really enjoyed it. Netflix has picked it up and they’re going to –
Brett McKay:
Yeah. I don’t know about that.
Brandon Flowers:
I know that it’s so iconic.
Brett McKay:
Robert Duvall.
Brandon Flowers:
Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones and all that, but they do miss… It’s missing the edge. There’s so
Brett McKay:
Much – They’re missing the sex. There’s a lot of sex in that book that didn’t make it into the miniseries. They’ll probably add that and if it’s a Netflix. Yeah,
Brandon Flowers:
We’ll figure it out.
Brett McKay:
We’ll figure it out.
Brandon Flowers:
Matthew McConaugh, his whole career. He’s just doing Robert Duvall all the time.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, you’re right.
Brandon Flowers:
If you watch him – I think
Brett McKay:
You’re right.
Brandon Flowers:
He is only doing Robert Duvall. I look it up, I Googled it, and it’s like nobody talks about it. I know. Okay. It’s like he’s only doing Robert Duvall all the time. Watch Duvall in Days of Thunder even or something like that. And it’s Matthew McConaughey, you see it. It’s crazy.
Brett McKay:
I hadn’t thought about that, but I think you might be onto something there. We’ll see if he gets cast as Gus and maybe the series is not going to be as bad as I thought it would be. We’ll have to see. So you grew up listening to your dad’s country western music. You just came out with a country album and you’ve been reading Western themed literature. So let’s talk about this. What are your five favorite country songs?
Brandon Flowers:
Right now, if you ask me tomorrow, it might be different, but I was thinking about it and I’ve got my five favorite country songs today.
Brett McKay:
Let’s hear it.
Brandon Flowers:
Okay. Don’t Close Your Eyes by Keith Whitley. You know that one?
Brett McKay:
I don’t.
Brandon Flowers:
It’s so beautiful. So the soundtrack to Nephi when I was there in the ’90s, it was country music. So I got this music from my brother, but at school dances and the guys that were at the golf course that I was with, it was country music. And this was somebody that was really prominent in the ’90s, amazing voice, and they would play this songs. It’s just funny to think of this at a school dance because he’s asking his wife to not imagine that she’s with another man. He says, “Don’t close your eyes. Let it be me tonight.” And that’s probably the first time I touched a girl’s hips to this song. Anyway, but everyone should check out Keith Whitley. Don’t close your eyes. Okay, so this one is really cool. It’s called The Winner, and it’s written by Shell Silverstein. Shel Silverstein wrote some really cool country songs.
I
Brett McKay:
Didn’t know that.
Brandon Flowers:
Chris Christofferson does it, and it is so good. I guess for this podcast too, it’s a guy who thinks of himself as a fighter and he goes into a bar and he wants to fight the guy that’s the toughest guy, and it’s called The Winner. The guy’s a little bit older now, and he’s got this wisdom, and he explains to him what it takes to be the winner. He explains the broken bones and the teeth, and you could apply it to everything in your life. It doesn’t have to be fighting. Shell Silverstein wrote it. It’s so cool. Then my third choice is called Silver Stallion. It’s by The Highway Men, and it’s just a beautiful song about… Everybody takes a… You highway men?
Brett McKay:
Yeah.
Brandon Flowers:
Everybody would take a verse. And then I think Johnny Cash sings the choruses because each song had a different kind of layout. Sometimes everybody would have a verse, but this one, the other three guys have verses and Johnny sings the choruses. It’s just a great song. And the video’s worth watching. There’s this little wink that Waylon Jennings does that is the most subtle wink in the history of mankind, and he’s just saying a little naughty line when he does it, and it is like, damn. I have a little nod to it. Does it ever cross your mind? I mean, in paradise, I say I lost the angel on my shoulder at 12 years old, and we did a video at RCA in Nashville, and I try my best, my little Waylon wink when I say I lost the angel at 12 years old. I did not though lose the angel when I was 12 years old.
I was not that young. I’m singing about my cousin, Bobby. All right. A lot of things different is this song, it’s called A Lot of Things Different, it’s written by Billy Anderson, Bill Anderson. But if people check it out, YouTube, John Conley doing this song. And it is like you can’t get through the song without crying. You cannot do it if you have a heart in your body. It’s like people say they wouldn’t change a thing even if they could. Oh, but I would. And he talks about these things from when he was a little boy till his wife dies, the things that he would’ve done different. And it is like a gut punch, man. It’s so beautiful. I love… Country songwriting storytelling is crazy. And then I just wanted to do a new song. There’s a guy named Ian No who just put out a new record, and there’s a song called What I’d Give, and it’s like tiger’s blood, but way better.
It’s so good. I would like people to know about this song. It’s about his friend that passes away, and he did such a good job at honoring him and explaining what life is like after, and just a beautiful new song.
Brett McKay:
We’re going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and now back to the show. So country music, one of its traditions is there’s a lot of religion or faith or gospel is in its bones. I mean, this is something you’ve done throughout your career with your music. You bring in faith. You’re a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as am I. But what’s interesting is the way you sing about faith or write lyrics about faith, it never seems preachy or sermonizing. It seems like it resonates and lands with people regardless of their religion or their background. So what do you think your trick is with that?
Brandon Flowers:
I don’t know what the trick is. I think it’s because I have an understanding. I’m pretty interested in people who leave my faith, which is a weird thing to talk about, I guess, because my faith is weirdly unshakeable. There’s a guy, Patrick Mason, that writes LDS books, but he talks about having a religious gene and he’s like, “I for sure have a religious gene.” And maybe there is a gene, and if there is, I have the religious gene because it just is pretty unshakeable. So it makes me interested in people that leave it. And so I sympathize with them and I know there’s a whole plethora of reasons why people get out of religion. And so I think there’s a little bit of a… It’s a tight rope kind of that you got to walk, but I think having that empathy and that compassion for those people while wanting to maybe even drop some Easter eggs or plant some seeds myself at the same time is sort of the trick.
Bono has been doing it forever.
Brett McKay:
He has been doing it and he does a good job at
Brandon Flowers:
It. Yeah, such a good, great person that I admire that does it well.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of your songs from the killers and also your solo work, there’s always a touch of the eternal to them, like a longing for it. But at the same time, you’re still grounded in mortality in the here and now.
Brandon Flowers:
And a lot of people are postmodernism and everything and just the irony has crept into a lot and it’s such a big part of music now and I am so sincere. It’s just who I am and how I am. And so there’s that too. It’s just all wrapped together.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. It’s refreshing and I think a lot of people crave that. They’re looking for that, and so you’re providing it.
Brandon Flowers:
It’s interesting because you want your artists to be authentic, but then it is strange when they might have these leanings.
Brett McKay:
Not like that.
Brandon Flowers:
So it is kind of funny. It’s a double-edged sword.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. Well, some of these songs, my favorite is An American Dream, and I think it’s your most existential song, but it also, I think it touches on faith. What were you trying to work out in this song?
Brandon Flowers:
Trying to figure out myself right now, I think. It’s funny. It feels like some kind of a fever dream where people are like, “What is he talking about?” But to me, every line is perfectly manufactured and it makes sense to me. I mean, I could go through all of it, but I do like leaving some of it to people’s imaginations. But yeah, it’s sort of just trying to come to terms with being 45 years old and how much effort that I’ve put into my work and trying to figure out… I genuinely am asking if it’s worth it. Was it worth it? Because do you have to give things up to go at it the way that I’ve been going at it?
Brett McKay:
What kind of things have you had to give up?
Brandon Flowers:
Just maybe time with people and relationships, maybe deteriorate, even with just maybe my brothers and sisters. And my dad, I just didn’t have a normal adult life. So it’s just some of that stuff is in there and just chasing fame or validation from other people, which I’ve slowly chipped away at that.
Brett McKay:
That’s a hard thing to
Brandon Flowers:
Chip away. It’s taken me a long time and I still want it. I want it.
Brett McKay:
I get it.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah, but I don’t need it like I did or think that I needed it when I was 28 or whatever.
Brett McKay:
Returning to your faith, in our church right now we’re reading the Old Testament, and I read somewhere that you’re reading it together with your sons.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah, we do it all through. We do… It’s called Come Follow Me. Come
Brett McKay:
Follow Me, yeah.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. And we’ve been doing it since it was implemented. And my family wasn’t… Whoever’s listening are not LDS, but there’s this thing growing up in the 80s, it was a big thing, Family Home Evening, they called it. So they would kind of designate a day, Monday was going to be a thing. Monday night. And it was going to be a family home evening. And some people did it and some people didn’t, but there was no outline. What you supposed
Brett McKay:
To do? You supposed to have root beer floats and just be together.
Brandon Flowers:
We maybe had two family home evenings in my whole life. And then when my kids were growing up, I started doing it a little bit and there were little kits that you could look at on Google or something like that, almost like mommy bloggers would make or something like that. And there was just no guidance. And then our church implemented this thing that was more home-centered learning. I don’t know what it was, but I just did it. We just started doing it.
Brett McKay:
That’s awesome.
Brandon Flowers:
It’s just not even a… So they give you a book about the outline of it, and I just stuck it on the dinner table, and it was going to be something that we did after dinner every day. And it’s been so nice.
Brett McKay:
I hear you watch The Sopranos afterwards sometimes.
Brandon Flowers:
We do. Yeah.
Brett McKay:
Which I think is appropriate. The Old Testament is wild. I think it’s got similar themes to The Sopranos because it’s like this family tribal saga about loyalty and
Brandon Flowers:
Justice. I tried to hold off, but the kids are getting older.
Brett McKay:
Yeah, you’re trying to introduce them to the show.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah, because during COVID, it was the Waltons.
Brett McKay:
So you’re getting edgier and edgier.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. And then it was Breaking Bad. Okay. Baskets was a hit in our house. Baskets was so good. Only three seasons. You know about Baskets? I
Brett McKay:
Don’t know Baskets.
Brandon Flowers:
It’s about a family in Bakersfield, California, and Zach Elphanakis plays, he plays two twins.
Brett McKay:
This guy Louie, what’s his name? He plays the mom.
Brandon Flowers:
Louie Anderson?
Brett McKay:
Louie Anderson.
Brandon Flowers:
He is my mom.
Brett McKay:
Mama Baskets. Yes.
Brandon Flowers:
Yes. He is my mom in that.
Brett McKay:
She is my mom too. She is exactly –
Brandon Flowers:
Unbelievable.
Brett McKay:
The things they say, there’s that scene where they’re at Costco, where she’s at Costco and she’s talking to the people. It’s
Brandon Flowers:
Like it’s your mom. It’s your mom.
Brett McKay:
Yes.
Brandon Flowers:
He says he was just doing his mom. Yeah. And that’s what a beautiful thing for him at the end of his life and his career to… He wanted an Emmy. Yeah. And who thought, let’s call Louis Anderson to be the mom?
Brett McKay:
Right. That was genius.
Brandon Flowers:
What? I think Louis CK was one that he got into a little trouble and they canceled the damn show. Yeah. Bring back baskets.
Brett McKay:
Bring back Mama Baskets. So what I was getting at, so yeah, you’re reading the Old Testament. As I listen to American Dream, it’s very Ecclesiastes. I don’t know if you read Ecclesiastes, but Ecclesiastes, it’s all about this preacher saying, “I want fame, I want wealth, and then I think it’s going to make me happy.” But he says, “It’s all heaven. It’s all vapor.”
Brandon Flowers:
Oh yeah, it’s like the fool’s gold. The
Brett McKay:
Fool’s gold. But at the same time, at the end, this preacher says, “Okay, this stuff’s not going to bring you happiness, but if you do it right, it can bring you happiness.”
Brandon Flowers:
Oh yeah. That very much that’s very much an American dream. That
Brett McKay:
Is an American dream. So another one that you get spiritual on, it’s a very poignant song, Miss America. This is about your sister.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah, that’s right.
Brett McKay:
Leaving an abusive marriage.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. She was here last night. We did it, and I didn’t see her the whole show. And then while I was singing that, I saw where she was and man, it was so tough to get through Miss America last night. But yeah, it was that thing where on Pressure Machine, I went to Nephi, and then I went even closer for this record and just went to my inner circle. And so there’s a brother-in-law song and a couple of sister songs, and my cousin Bobby shows up in Paradise. But yeah, so Miss America, it’s just funny how these memories that you have, so many things that stick with us are really emotionally charged. And the biggest emotion is fear for that kind of stuff. And I remember a lot of fear around that guy that my sister was married to, and early memory is –
Brett McKay:
And you were pretty young.
Brandon Flowers:
Real young, because she’s quite a bit… She’s 15 years older than me. So early memories are him and my dad fighting in my kitchen.
Brett McKay:
Like physical fighting?
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. And then a year later, her and him fighting and us going out to shoot baskets because they were screaming and then the house just shaking and running in and she’s on the ground. It was like one of those things where this guy was going to… He would’ve killed her if she would’ve stayed long enough. But the beautiful thing about it is my family moves and I feel like Payson at the time when they moved up the I-15 to Payson, it was just far enough away for her when she brought the kids that she could stay there. It wasn’t across town and he could come and cry at the door anymore. It was like I’m gone. It’s a six hour drive and there was enough space for it to sink in that this could actually happen. You could be away from him. It was an emotional thing to write about.
But again, I was just surprised at what I remembered and then it draws me closer to her when I send it to her because I wanted to get her approval before we put it on the record. And so it just bonded us. Now we’re forever bound by this song and it’s kind of a pretty side to it.
Brett McKay:
No, it is. I mean, there’s that line. I remember the first time I heard it, I think I watched a bootleg YouTube video. You were playing in, it looked like a Dazing conference place. But that lyric, if Jesus really suffered and paid for all this sin, then why do we still feel it again and again? That’s a tough question. And I think every believer’s going to bump into that at some point. Have you figured it out?
Brandon Flowers:
No, because he’s taking care of it. And if you believe, you’ve got this hope that things are going to be made whole again, but you don’t know. We can’t know. And you just have to have faith that what he did, what you believe that he did for us is really going to – Is going to happen. Is really going to happen. Yeah.
Brett McKay:
Have you ever toyed with the idea of doing a gospel album like Elvis or Johnny
Brandon Flowers:
Cat? Yeah. No, I love that. I love those records and just trying to find a way to do it. Those guys are both such heavy hitters and they have such distinguished and sort of baritone voices. And I think that’s what gave away to empower a lot of those songs. But I would be into it. I’m a tenor though. There’s got to be some way to find an in though.
Brett McKay:
Are there any songs you’d put on there in mind, like two or three, you’re like, oh, that’d be a good one I’d want to do.
Brandon Flowers:
I’ve though of a couple. I was trying to think of what was there was one that I love. It’s called My Lord What a Mourning. Is that what it’s called? I think it’s called My Lord What a Mourning.
Brett McKay:
I’ll
Brandon Flowers:
Have to look it up. I love that song.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. Well, we’d love to hear Brandon Flower’s gospel album.
Brandon Flowers:
I’ve done a couple of songs.
Brett McKay:
Yeah. I mean, they’re out there.
Brandon Flowers:
At church events and things like that. Yeah.
Brett McKay:
So one of the things I appreciate about your work is that it feels like it’s grown up with me. And each of your albums seems to hit at the right moment in my life. There are bands that I listened to in high school
And they’re still putting out stuff, but they’re still singing about the same stuff. And it just sounds the same. Some artists, their music just kind of stays stuck in this adolescent ethos and it doesn’t resonate with me anymore because I’m in my 40s. I’m not 17 anymore, but yours has matured and it touches themes and currents that you don’t typically see in a lot of popular music these days. You’ve been married for two decades and that experience is in your songs. There really aren’t many songs that capture the enduring love of a longstanding marriage and that’s refreshing. And Imploding the Mirage and then Pressure Machine, those seem like midlife albums and not like Midlife Crisis albums, just like midlife. Thrasher does too. Am I reading that right?
Brandon Flowers:
No. Yeah. I’ve made a real concerted effort to, I mean, if you can do it, to try to just inhabit my age and grow gracefully. And there are bands that I love that I grew up on that didn’t do that. And I’m not going to say who they are, but you see them and they’re squeezing into the clothes and they’re trying to look like it’s whatever year it was. And I just don’t want to do that. It’s a little bit of maneuvering and it’s almost like a little bit of a game of chess. And going back to an American dream, I realized that if I really want to follow through on that, there might be things I got to give up or maybe I don’t know what the future will look like or what shows will look like. Maybe it’s not always going to be giant rooms with all the old songs.
Maybe it’s going to look more like the tour that I’m on now. I’m not sure.
Brett McKay:
I mean, what are some themes on your mind lately as you’re 45 in midlife?
Brandon Flowers:
I wrote a new song called The Weight of the World and I have a funny line. My dad got knees replaced from carrying the weight of the world and both of my shoulders have had shaved my acromions and a labral tear and I tie it together, me and him. The chorus is I’m tired of carrying the weight of the world. Jesus, if it’s all right with you, this is my two weeks notice. There’s got to be some younger gun with his eye on the pearl who wouldn’t mind carrying the weight of the world. Anyway, that’s what I’ve been feeling like lately.
Brett McKay:
That’s funny you’re relating to your dad about the physical ailment.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. It happens. My brother always said, wait till you’re 40. And you just feel like it’s never going to happen. But man, I mean the day before this tour started, I had to get a shot in my hip because I have a small tear, a small labral tear in my hip. And I got it from trying to do a longevity challenge.
Brett McKay:
Oh no. Was it like trying to get up without –
Brandon Flowers:
Trying to get up without your hands. Your hands, yeah. And I tore my labrum six months ago trying to get up. Anyway, that’s what I’m dealing with.
Brett McKay:
Oh man. No, I’ve had that same. When I go to visit my dad in Oklahoma City, we’ll have conversations. I’m like, “Man, do you have to pee in the middle of the night? How are you sleeping?” It’s pretty funny. Speaking about this getting old and getting the tear, are you working out? I mean, you’re 45. The touring is physically demanding.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah, I started early on, but I still am frustrated because I feel like I was late, a little bit late. Probably like 27, 28 is when I started going. It was just a lot that had to do with cardio, which sort of makes sense now. What I do on stage requires that kind of endurance. Not tonight, but Ada Killer shows really different. It’s really a lot. But I wasn’t lifting heavy enough and I know that now and I can’t go back. So I got my son now is 19 and he’s learning that. And so he’s already leaps and bounds ahead of me in that department.
Brett McKay:
So you’re on the road a lot. You talked about one of the things you’re worried or thinking about is was it worth it because you’re away from your family. But I mean, you’re a family guy and it seems like you’ve tried to stay connected. How do you keep those home fires burning when you’re on the road?
Brandon Flowers:
It’s one of the things is I don’t, this is all I do is this in my family. I grew up golfing and I always thought that that was going to be there for me if I ever wanted to do something. And it’s just funny. I mean, I loved that game. I love it. I really appreciate it still. And I’ve gone a couple of times and I just feel nothing. I can’t wait for it to be done and I just can’t believe that. It’s really fun to me because I loved it, but it’s just that. It’s just family and the music. So in a lot of ways, I think I make up for the time that I’ve been on the road. Of course, you can’t be perfect at it, but I’ve learned to balance it and when I’m home, I’m home.
Brett McKay:
That’s awesome. Well, Brandon, this has been a great conversation. So I’ve done my best to keep my mic while it’s 60 minutes.
Brandon Flowers:
Oh, it’s okay.
Brett McKay:
So I’m going to fanboy out, but literally your music has meant a lot
Brandon Flowers:
To me. Oh, thank you so much.
Brett McKay:
It’s been the soundtrack to the past 20 years. Memories with these guys are there. We found out Marian was pregnant at a killer show. She started puking.
Brandon Flowers:
Oh no. That’s funny. And
Brett McKay:
Then just memories with my kids on a road trip in the American Southwest, putting on the killers and just singing with them and seeing them go to their first killer show and just really excited. So yeah, thank you for developing that talent. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. And thank you to your family and your wife and your kids for sharing you with us.
Brandon Flowers:
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Brett McKay:
My guest today was Brandon Flowers. His latest album is Thrasher. It’s available wherever you stream music, but even better, go to brandonflowersmusic.com where you can buy the album in vinyl, CD, or cassette. And if you want to go deeper into today’s episode, be sure to check out our show notes at awim.is/brandonflowers, which includes links to further resources, including Brandon’s five favorite country songs. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AWIM Podcast. If you haven’t done Serti, I’d appreciateive take one minute to give a review on the podcast player that you use to listen to the show. And if you’ve done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who think you get something out of it. As always, thank you for the continued support. Until next time’s Brett McKay podcast, but put what you’ve heard into action.
