Comments on: Manvotional: Pioneers! O Pioneers! by Walt Whitman

By: DFerris85

DFerris85 — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:27:06 +0000

Love all of the different thoughts on the American expansion to the west. I understand the urge to blanket the early settlers with the sole blame for the demise of the indigenous population. And in a certain thought, we are wholly to blame. Yet when delving a little deaper, the migration of the natives from Siberia toward America occurred over a few thousand years. Of course, this does not mean that one group of people left Siberia one day and arrived a few thousand years later. Tribes migrated hundreds of miles away, died, and their spawn pushed a little further. This continuous cascade of peoples through successive generations resulted in the pre-colonial America we read about in the history books.
These people, when arrived, did not (for the most part) live symbiotically. Warring tribes have been a constant on this continent- long before we ever arrived. In fact, the cultural and social evolution of most of the tribes were sculpted by the prospects, actualization, and fruits of war. Tribes were wiped out- although we see them as evolving. When an original tribal group of a few hundred commits to war, is reduced to a mere 50, and these 50 people, in order to survive, develop different customs- is there evolution? or devolution?
I guess what I’m saying is- the fact that we see ourselves today so different from the Indian peoples is what gives birth to the guilt we hold. The fact that we have such an enveloping term “Native Americans” and “Indians” is proof of this. The various tribes saw themselves different from one another just as we do the natives. If our genocide had breadth, theirs had depth.
Lastly, try and look at Whitman’s theme of the expansion to the west as a metaphor for the old world starting anew. The European settlers coming here with a clean slate, and open possibilities- thus, they were recreating humanity.

By: Rob Schmidt

Rob Schmidt — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:34:22 +0000

I’d say Jimbo knows US history better than Tony does. To help Tony with some of his mistakes and stereotypes, see:

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2009/12/educating-tony-about-genocide.htm

By: Ed Gruszecki

Ed Gruszecki — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:55:15 +0000

How inspirational were those words, in those times; in Walt’s times!
Now there are different times and the crucible of manliless has become distorted.
So, I wrote:

MUSLIM
And The Foolishness Of The Fight

I’ll eat no swine,
I’ll drink no wine,
I’m a Muslim

I’ll fly your planes into your walls,
I’ll show you that we too have balls.
I’m a Muslim.

I am the young man with a cause,
Exploding without pause.
I’m a Muslim.

I’m as stupid as are you,
Waving flag red white and blue,
I’m a Muslim.

Your boys kill people in Baghdad,
I kill myself because I’m sad.
I’m a Muslim.

I am as stupid as you,
And until our lives our through,
I’ll be Muslim.

Shoot me now or I’ll shoot you,
It will make no sense till you
See that I’m Muslim.

My fathers have tought me to be tough,
Yours have made you tough enough.
You are Muslim.

We’ll kill each other a little more,
We’ll settle each and every score,
Because we’re Muslims.

Allah will love me for my fight,
Your God will love you for the might
You shower down into our night
Of Shock And Awe into the sight
Of children who cower ‘neath the plight
Of being Muslim.

We are no different, you and I,
Both have guns, both easily die,
Because we’re Muslim.

When the fuck will fathers learn
There is no reason more to burn,
Our people
‘Cause they’re Muslim?

You are dying, so are we,
It is time that both we see
The Infidel is you and me,
And we’re both Muslims.

Ed Gruszecki

Walt’s ‘Blades Of Grass’ are, these days, too often split by bullets hurling. It is nice to be a fan of the old Poets. It is nice to be an old poet (which I am). But is terrible to understand how war continues on, and for so supercillious a reason as religious nonsense.
Anyway, those were the thoughts on my mind this morning. I thought I’d share them with you. The aforementioned poem is only ‘broadly’ copyrighted (under a body of work), but not in any exclusivity, so you can do whatever you want with it (should you choose).
Good night, O Pioneer.

By: Rich

Rich — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:32:02 +0000

Tony,

About your statement, “Jimbo, if that were true, then how come people still say they’re settling in Ohio or NYC? ”

No one is settling in Ohio. We are just passing through and end up staying for longer then we expected.

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:48:06 +0000

For all the pc hand wringing in the Native American argument, I would like to do some pc hand wringing of my own. One of the first posters said that they were hesitant to qualify Whitman as “Manly.” One could say it was because he was a poet and intellectual, but let’s not beat around the bush here; its because he was gay. Now we can get into a big “is it manly?” discussion about whether homosexuals can be traditionally manly, but looking at Whitman’s life and works is enough, for me anyway, to say he is definitely manly.

He served as a combat nurse in the Civil War. Now before you get your dander up, consider the working conditions in that place and time period. We cannot imagine the horror, blood, stench, and death of a Civil War medical tent. It would take a man with nerves of steel to both treat the injured solders and keep their sanity the whole time. Now some would argue that a real man’s place is on the battlefield. I say that one of the essential characters of a real man is to stand by his principles. A conscientious objector, Whitman served his country without violence. Sometimes it takes strength not to fight.

Lastly, let’s consider his patriotism. His service in the crucible of war only strengthened his love of country. We need poets to express and preserve the values and ideas that shape us as a culture, and Whitman was the poet our country needed at the time. His verses speak of independence, manly fellowship, and reverence for nature. That’s manly in my book. Who cares if he was gay?