Is Being A Stay-At-Home Dad Manly?
July 23, 2008
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Each Thursday we ask whether you think a certain object or subject is manly. Make sure to check out past Is it manly? polls. Now for this week’s question:
Is being a stay-at-home dad manly? Vote. Discuss.
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Is being a stay at home dad manly?
Depends. I’d love to stay home and take care of my kids when I eventually have them. But if you’re just lazy, get your @ss a job and help out!
This all depends. Are you a single dad? Do you work from home? I would say the only instance where this is not manly is if you are just a lazy guy.
Doing what is best for your family, regardless of the opinions of others who do not have a responsibility to ensure the care and comfort of your loved ones, is manly.
I’m sure this won’t be popular with the PC crowd, but no I don’t think being a stay at home dad is manly. Gender roles developed over thousands of years of time and they developed that way for a reason. Women are more nurturing and better with children. Men are nurturing too, but there is something inside them that craves real accomplishment-and no, changing diapers and making dinner is not an accomplishment. Men need to get out there and use their talents. They have a drive and focus that needs to be utilized. The stay at home dads I have met have a stale, defeated air about them, their manliness has gone soft (men with only daughters, and no sons have this same vibe).
RE Dirk
Hey caveman! In the modern world women can earn more than a man. It has only been since your type have been able to let a woman out of a kitchen that this could occur. I think that a man can be satisfied at home building a sweet ass organic garden, raising chickens for eggs and slaughter, and still get dinner on the table. It depends on what you choose to fill your day with. Being at home can leave you to do more manly activities than slowly dying behind a computer, you can create with your hands like REAL men do!
Very manly!
More manly than many things commonly considered manly, in my book.
You surrender so many things to be Mr. Mum, for a job that doesn’t pay and you are likely to get ridiculed for, all to look after your kids properly.
Retrorambler:
Exactly! There is so much at home that could occupy you in cool ways.
I’d love to meet a professional and setup my own aquaponics system for organic food, work in the garden, look after the kids and house. There is no reason in this day and age why such a thing is unacceptable(except perhaps men can’t breastfeed, heh)
Tough question, but I can see DRV’s point. Is it the right thing to do and can you completely make it work? Of course. Is doing the right thing and making it work manly? Absolutely!
But let’s not ignore a man’s genetic disposition and drive that is quite different than a woman’s. It is not better or worse, just different.
I never believed this until we had a child of our own come into our lives. There is simply something genetic in a woman’s makeup that equips them better for the nurturing and upbringing of a child. Working around the house is manly, but being a stay at home caretaker of a family is a different question.
It is a man’s job to provide for his family. No where in that definition does it say that a man has to have a job and be the “bread winner.” you can provide for your family by caring for your children, growing the food for you family, providing a good home while your wife is out at work.
If we want to get all anthropological gender Roles were in part created due to the value that women had in comparison to the men in ancient tribes… women could produce more children, men you can get any man to inseminate a woman, maybe one man inseminating many women… women were directly responsible for the generational survival of the tribal unit… they were held back and protected, men could go off and get killed by a boar or rival tribesman, and that would be a loss, but NOT the same as the loss of a woman capable of childbearing… many men one woman means one child every year or two… one man many women = children all the time. Men from this viewpoint had a value but not near as much as a woman… if you want to get all anthropological about it all. In tribal societies it wasn’t JUST the woman who took care of the children in fact it was the duty of the tribe as a whole, men and women… because they represented the future of the tribe… their survival to adulthood (a much younger age than what we consider adulthood) was paramount, any children dying due to negligence was probably constituted a death sentence to those who were not fulfilling their responsibility.
it has only been since the industrial revolution that men routinely left home to work, and women where left to do housework and child raising alone. there should be nothing wrong with a man staying home to take care of children and housework, it is a part of human history.
so far in my own life, the only kid we have has four legs and barks, but I am for all intensive purposes a stay-at-home Dad/ househusband. aside from feeding and walking the our dog, I have many tasks I complete to improve our house, handle finances, organize and eliminate clutter, and other manly things to improve the quality of life for my family.
I am surprised at the results here. Are so many men really that comfortable being stay at home? Or is this poll just being responded to most strongly by those few men who think that there is nothing wrong with that sort of thing?
Can it be manly? Yes. Is it typically manly? No. I have to say that I’m surprised by the response as well. It seems that so far there is a majority that says it is manly for a guy to be a stay at home dad.
i don’t care what the feminists say, the vast majority of women could not respect their man if he stayed home making domestic daddy while she hacked it through the corporate world. and the only women who prefer this situation are control freaks who want agreeable beta males that defer to their power. not manly, imo.
I think it’s manly any time a man steps up and looks after his children, period. Take a look around nowadays, most men don’t even live with their kids.
Zendad
http://www.zendad.net
My dad taught me that being a real man means doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to take care of your family. In his own life, that meant working multiple jobs, hard labor jobs, and often dangerous jobs. Sometimes all three at the same time. I wish I could tell you that his sacrifice meant that my mother could stay at home and do the nurturing thing like the old stereotypical family, but that wasn’t the case. I was a latchkey kid in a small midwestern town for years before I ever heard the term. My parents were gone at work when I woke up in the morning and came home anywhere from 2 - 3 hours after I got out of school.
In my life, Dad’s “whatever it takes” philosophy has meant working multiple jobs and/or hard labor jobs (I’ve been very fortunate in the danger department). But it has also meant being a stay at home dad. My wife and I have both been the stay at home parent, usually to support the other one while they attended college. There have been times in our life together when it just wasn’t possible for the second parent to get a job that paid enough to have any money left over after daycare, so it was smarter economically for one of us to stay at home.
I’m won’t lie: for me, being a stay at home dad was a soul crushing, ambition killing experience. I understand very well the defeated, “unmanly” air discussed in earlier comments, and preventing that from happening to you can be a daily challenge in that situation.
But you know what? My awesome, very manly father did his share of soul crushing, ambition killing work to take care of me. Tearing your body up on manual labor to build houses, waking up in pain every morning and knowing that if you died at 40 the coroner would find the body of a 70 year old–soul crushing. Being a long haul truck driver, away from your family for a minimum of a week at a time, endless days on the road to the point that you can barely remember what state you’re in, seeing and hearing about your co-workers being beaten, stabbed and/or shot for their cargo, their truck, or just the 30 bucks in their wallet — soul crushing. But he did it anyway. Even though it was hard, even though it was miserable, he what was necessary to take care of us until he found or made better options.
If I can at all help it, I won’t do the stay at home thing ever again. But if we find ourselves in a situation where my staying at home is the best available option and any other choice would mean depriving my children, I’ll do it again in a heartbeat.
I say… it all depends on how the stay-at-home dad raises his kid.
Let’s say our “SAHD” gets the kids up at a regular time and has food prepared for breakfast. He has the kids help clean, then he engages them in activities and learning lessons throughout the day. He feeds them a nutritious lunch, runs errands, and has the kids do assigned chores. Dinner ready for when the wife comes home, and final chores before bedtime. Having a scheduled, disciplined day for himself and the kids makes his job busy, challenging, and — in this instance — manly.
The other side of the coin is the SAHD who lets his kids sleep as late as they want. He lets them pour their own cereal while he plays his video games. He goes to McDonald’s every day for lunch, and his wife comes home to a messy house and has to cook dinner herself. This is a loser, lazy lifestyle and definitely not manly. He probably wouldn’t be married — and thus a SAHD — long.
I’ll go ahead and vote yes. I agree with above comments that being a man means doing whatever it takes to make sure your family is secure. If your wife makes enough money to ensure the whole family lives a comfortable lifestyle, then by all means. However… I do agree with Dirk above that gender roles are well ingrained into our makeup. I do believe that men will yearn for a certain amount of displayable success. It’s not about being a “caveman” as another poster put it. It’s just an evolved fact of our existence. A man will need some secondary pursuit in order to fulfill this need.
Great comments from everyone.
I don’t think that it’s unmanly at all if it’s the right thing for your family. There are situations where it makes a lot more sense for Dad to stay home for the good of the family as a whole.
And as a stay-at-home mom I can sure relate to the soul-crushing aspect of it- I adore my kids and wouldn’t make another choice (well, I couldn’t anyway as they have special needs), but it can be extremely isolating and routine if you’re not very careful to also give yourself options to feel like something other than “just” a parent.
That said, I think that the men who do manage to be great stay at home dads are fantastic (and in my experience, are usually doing a great job at it)- I think that it’s a lot more difficult for stay at home dads than moms in some ways. SAH Dads don’t have the theoretical support that SAH moms do…there aren’t a lot of Daddy and Me playgroups, and I can’t count the number of Dads I’ve seen at the park with their kids in the morning who are alone as so many moms won’t talk to them for whatever reason. If you can deal with all of that, and kids, then you really are a “real” man.
@Dirk:
I agree with what you say about gender roles developing that way for a reason, and the stereotypes you mention (e.g. women are nurturing) are accurate when talking about society in general. But there are two problems. First, the degree to which these stereotypes apply to each individual family varies widely. Second, it’s not all or nothing. The fact that a woman works doesn’t mean she has no time for nurturing, or the fact that a man stays at home doesn’t mean he can’t “get out there and use his talents.” An ideal family is one in which some roles are more solidly defined, but there is an ample amount of sharing.
The first and most important part of being manly is to step up and take responsibility for the well-being of your family. Only you and your family can decide what that will be, of course. But if the decision to stay at home and raise kids is the responsible choice, a real man will make that choice in a heartbeat, even if that means sacrificing some personal ambition. Self-sacrifice is manly too. Good question.
@ Kevin, @ Dirk
Maybe you guys just aren’t as nurturing as your counterparts. Seems to me you’re generalizing based on your personal experience with your kids (which I have no doubt has been a positive one for both you and yours).
@ TJ
Right on all counts, dude.
http://www.the-common-man.com
I’m pretty much inclined to agree with Dirk, my first response to the stay-at-home-dad question is “probably not manly.” But I do see the larger point everyone else is making about stereotypes. Here’s the deal though…we’re talking about things in a general sense, so stereotypes are what we have to go with. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, so we can find examples where the most responsible thing to do is for the man to stay at home. But like Dirk and others have said, the stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. Generally speaking, men are better suited for doing the “outside the house” work like farming, hunting and gathering, commenting on blog posts during work hours (ahem), and so on. And generally speaking, women are better suited for doing the “inside the house” work like nurturing children and complaining about how men can’t seem to pee straight. That doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions, and it doesn’t mean that men and women shouldn’t help each other out in their respective roles. Call me old fashioned, but with a hat tip towards the exceptions everyone is making, I’m going to have to say that the stereotypes are mostly valid. That’s why I voted no, even though I recognize there can be good reasons for a dad to stay at home. Even if you disagree with me, though, I think we can all agree that if the guy is sitting on the couch folding clothes while on the phone discussing characters from The Young And The Restless, he deserves a beating of UFC-style proportions. Have some self-respect, at least watch Jeopardy instead!
If manliness in a family role means anything, it means that the man is primarily responsible for the external relationships of the family, providing for the family in being out and about working the broader economy. If you want to jettison “stereotypes” (i.e. gender roles), then in what sense is it “manly” to stay home (presumably while the wife is out working)?
Since when is personal responsibility for your children not masculine? It’s the modern age, women work, roles should be equally shared if need be.
Indeed, in what parallel universe is staying at home to mold your progeny like a piece of clay into a strapping lad not considered manly?
for sure it is, if you spend the time with them and not neglect them.
If I was a SAHD, I’d be hitting the gym more often than I do now, looking more manly than I do now.
Although I’d probably find something to do with myself still; blogging is one, but likely some kinda telecommutable type of role, that I can do at home…
Btw, I have the topic for the next poll! Which is also very related to SAHD and its stereotype!
Come on over…
LIke many have said already, I believe it all depends on the context of the situation.
If a woman leaves her home to take on a job, then that’s just not very womanly. If she’s forced to because her husband isn’t making enough to support the family, that’s not very manly. If he really is working his very hardest and trying his best but life situations are just keeping him from providing fully for his family, thus forcing his wife to take on a job as well…well, that happens.
Say, in this scenario, the wife just so happens to start making enough money to support the family all on her own, but not enough to pay for a babysitter in addition to everythijng else and the husband has to stay at home and take care of the kids. In that situation, it would be very manly to step up to the plate and do what you have to do to take care of the family. This should ony be a temporary arrangement, however, and they should continue to try to work it out to where the wife can get back in the home and the man can get back to work, because that’s the way that it is supposed to be.
I fully appreciate Angelina’s comments above when she brought the insight that women won’t respect their husbands if the roles were reversed and the husband stayed at home while the wife went to work.
Sure, every family has to figure out what will work best for them. Sometimes both husband and wife have to work to make ends meet. But, if given the choice, the man should work and the wife should maintain the home. This is the way it always has been and always should be. I will always absolutely resist anything that tries to reverse, or change, the roles of the husband and wife.
So, given the context, it can be very manly for the man to stay at home, but this situation should be avoided if possible.
I like the way Mike said it above. Thanks Mike.
Woman are just flat-out more qualified to stay at home with children, especially babies and toddlers. I mean that in the most complimentary sense. There is a lot of talk about “If I was a SAHD I would go to the gym more and build a garden and do manly this and that…” The reality is that staying at home with kids doesn’t really allow you time for much of anything. Men naturally have a desire to work, and if you don’t, you’re lazy.
Dudes, just go to work, come home and be manly dads.
I do have to say that if it’s necessary, being a SAHD can be very manly…but I don’t believe that it’s the man’s inherent role.
Stereotypes aside, I think that some gender roles are divinely appointed, and I do believe that a man’s role is to protect and provide for his family. I believe that a woman’s role is to nurture the family.
Now, that’s the ideal. There are plenty of circumstances that warrant going outside of this ideal. If a man loses his job and the wife must work, I think a temporary shift in duties could be in order.
There are a multitude of possibilities, but in the end it’s all about your relationship with God and with each other. If you feel it is right for your family, then it probably is, despite what others say.
Great comments everyone! I’m really enjoying the discussion.
@Thomas- You raise an interesting point about men leaving the home after the Industrial Revolution. For thousands of years before then, most men stayed at home. They either worked as farmers or artisans. Of course every now and then they would leave for hunts or wars, but for the most part they stayed at home to work. Consequently, men were able to play a bigger role in their children’s lives. For example, a man before the Industrial Revolution would teach their son the value of hard work by taking them to the fields or to his shop.
One of the interesting ramifications of the Information Age is that the internet with its remote working capabilities might return us back to pre-Industrial home arrangements.
Everyone that says women are more nurturing is wrong. Women have turned into tyrants. Their coping skills have devolved to an extreme. We are living in a world of divas. The stay at home moms I know (including my wife) aren’t as fun and creative as the men, they don’t want to get in the floor and goof off, and they are turning our kids into germaphobes. Their idea of interacting is making playdates for our kids, that way the kids are incapable of entertaining themselves. I was a stay at home dad for our first born, and my wife stays at home with our second. My oldest had far better coping skills than my youngest, and has far fewer tantrums. I have far fewer tantrums and better coping skills than my wife. Is it a coincidence our kids are the way they are? Me thinks not. Most women are bossy and opinionated control freaks, so let them have the corporate world and let the men raise the kids. At least the men that aren’t afraid to.
Yes, of course its manly if a parent is required to be home and it makes financial sense for the mother to work instead. If the kids are at school until 3pm and he’s staying home, maybe its time for him to get a job though.
I’ll say no, but that is only based on the 2 or 3 friends of mine who do it. I have one friend who is a loving dad, a musician and maintains a lot of hobbies. The problem is that he is fully employable with a valuable skill set, but actually prefers to “stay home and hang out” rather than “get a real job”. (His words, not mine.) It’s not as though his wife brings home more than enough money. They scrape by while he practices guitar in the garage and the kids sit in front of the television. His wife works tons of hours in a difficult job to keep them afloat.
Maybe if he practiced cage fighting or was a writer it would be different, but in my opinion he is just lazy and was ruined by a mom who did EVERYTHING for him and a wife who puts up with too much s&*t.
I’d personally hate staying home. I used to have my son every Saturday while my wife worked, but I’m just not wired for that. I love my kids and relish my time with them, but I’m accomplishment/goal motivated and my career is intellectually stimulating in a way that I have never gotten from staying home with the kids. I’m much more comfortable in the “leader/coach” role with kids. Whether it’s coaching baseball or taking my kids on a hike and teaching them about nature, I feel like I have more to offer them since I have a pathological lack of empathy my sense of “nurturing” centers on protection and being a provider.
summary: in terms of manly, meaning meeting some stereotypical 1950’s TV show version of manly, then no it isn’t.
In terms of having the guts to do what’s best for your family, in a given situation, then yes it is.
In terms of the “what will my wife think of me” department, hopefully you married the right woman.
In terms of how you raise your kids, That depends on how you do it… Ive seen 40 year old men who are more childish with rasing their children, and I’ve seen way too many kids either abused or coddled/overprotected. Raising your kids in a manly way means giving them freedom to learn their own lessons, while taking enough precautions to ensure they are smart enough to learn them withoud getting hurt too bad. It also means a healthy amount of discipline, and ensuring your kids know why they’ve been disciplined. One should always use spanking as a last resort, as it really offers no educational value or severity if used frequently.
Use it for things where your child endangers their own personal safety-”That car you almost ran into would hurt a lot more than my spanking - DON’T CROSS THE ROAD WITHOUT LOOKING, AGAIN”. Find other ways to punish your kid for misbehaving in public, swearing, etc.. And never, ever be the father who says “It couldn’t have been my kid” when a teacher, or other adult you have given charge of your kid to… It’s ok to ask for proof. But sometimes kids do dumb/stupid/cruel things, and your kid is no different..
But, yeah, it all depends on your point of view if it is manly or not…. Manly is as much in the mindset of the man as is how he performs the task he set out to do.
I work at home, as a Lawyer with my own small practice (consisting of me). Because of my career, it allowed me to stay at home and homeschool my son, while still working. I see nothing unmanly about it in that context. But I agree with earlier posters about the lack of manliness if it’s due to laziness or some such other unmanly reason.
I’ve been a stay at home dad from the time my children were born. They are all grown now. Happy, healthy, independent and responsible. I am a Marriage and Family Therapist. My office has always been in our home. This allowed me to set a therapy schedule that was best for our family. I also had a babysitter when needed. I got to go to their school for events and sports. I was the only dad when it was time to pick up our children. I got to give the mothers some free family therapy. I was raised during the early years of my life by my Italian Grandmother. She was my first experience of UNconditional Love. We lived in a huge home with my cousins and their families. Being present for all of these children was my Grandmother’s top priority. She absolutely loved children Unconditionally. I am so thankful for what I learned from her. AND, my Italian Grandfather taught me all the things that my father should have: Guns, fishing, driving, and working on cars. (I’m not a gun person but I know how to use them. I am a Black Belt in karate-only used it when I was in the Army. But I’m for Peace, whether it be in my family or the world.)When my family finally moved out on their own, I was ignored. My father worked four to midnight for his whole life. When he was home, he was either sleeping or didn’t want to be bothered. I made a commitment to myself that I was going to be what I learned from my Grandmother to my children. Also while at home, I did household chores: laundry, dishes, pets, watering, some shopping, etc. My wife was a VP for an advertising agency and worked long hour, but always took time to go to our children’s school with me. On the weekends she was a full time parent ,did chores, liked to work in the garden and loved to cook for all of us. I couldn’t be happier for the way we parented and how our children turned out. We’re still very close, see each other often, and travel the world together. A Loving Dad is very important to a Healthy, Loving Family. Being Mr. Mom has been a very Manly experience and is still a rewarding part of my life.
I raised my kid back in the late 80’s all by myself, and I can tell you for certain sure that it made a better man out of me. Born and raised in the John Wayne 50’s and I learned all about how to be a “real man.” Show no fear, no emotions (beaten out of me by the age of 5), couldn’t cook, clean, sew or raise kids because I was never urged to find out how to do “women’s work.” Raising a kid as a single father was the best thing that ever happened to me. Gave me more self respect and confidence then any other single thing I had ever done in my life. My son and I are closer because of it and I will never regret the lesson so hard won.
If you take pride in what you do, WHATEVER you do, than it is manly. This is the fundamental lesson I’ve learned after my first month of being a SAHD. My situation was different than most here…I actually made more than my wife (not a great deal more, but more)…however, my job required me to work insane hours for most of the year, including weekends. When presented with the option of my job vs. seeing my child grow up, it was a no brainer.
In fact, it’s just about the most difficult job a person can take on…there’s the isolation, and the constant need to remind yourself that what you’re doing is actually beneficial. It’s easy to lose that…you feel like you’re pulling some sort of scam. If you don’t take pride in EVERYTHING you do during the day, and see it’s inherent purpose, you’ll lose yourself. Take pride in a clean house. Take pride in reading to your kids and watching them learn. Take those few quiet moments you have and learn something new. Be sure you’re completely involved in all financial decisions, even if you aren’t chipping in monetarily.
Relatedly, I highly recommend anyone who takes this path join a gym, and use the membership daily. You’ve spent your entire day caring for someone else. Take an hour and take care of yourself. Blow off steam…aside from feeling better, you’ll avoid the spread that will inevitably come along with being at home, and you’re wife will get off on it. Believe me…
So in my long, roundabout way, my answer to the question is this…if you approach it with the same pride as you approached your job, then it is.
And on a greater note, if you worry about whether other people think what you’re doing is manly or not, then you’re not one…being a man means not giving a flying F*** about what others think.
Being a “stay at home” dad is full of virtue, but I am afraid it is not manly. Just like my cleaning the toilets at home is not manly, just a necessary virtue for the benefit of the family. Doing the right thing is not, be definition, manly. It’s just the right thing.
Watching a man take care of a child is very sexy. Every time I watch my husband rock out six-month old to sleep, I fall in love with him all over again. Having one parent (mother or father) stay at home is a very personal decision, and should be made by the whole family (and not based upon social norms). Anyone who is willing to break social norms to do what works for their family is manly.
To my detractors:
As long as he’s not being lazy: Anyone who thinks there is anything lazy about staying at home with the kids is crazy! It is a lot of work to take care of a child. I was on maternity leave for only six weeks, and I was glad to return to work because I wanted a break from being a full time mom.
Gender roles have been there for thousands of years are there for a reason: This was true. The thing you have to remember is our culture moves quickly and the rules change. There was a time when it made sense for the woman to stay at home with the children. She has to recover from giving birth, she had to breastfeed the child, and men made more money. But with the advent of bottles, formula, breast pumps, maternity leave, and the ability at earn as much as a man, there really is no reason for these gender roles to be so rigid.
Men have ambition and need to work outside of the home to fulfill that ambition: This is all fine and well except it implies that women do not share this same ambition. More and more, we are seeing women rise to the top of their field- in all areas. There are now more women in college than men. It’s about time that we ask men to make the same sacrifices that women have been expected to make for years.
Women are more nurturing: This is probably the best argument, but it still has some problems. First, it depends on what you consider nurturing to be. As Wayne points out, perhaps turning our kids into germaphobes, and making play dates isn’t the best definition of nurturing. From what I can tell, the only thing that would make women (as a whole) more “nurturing? is that they are more adept at language (both verbal and non-verbal) and more empathetic (probably due to being able to read people better). But does this really equate to being more nurturing? If you have a child that is constantly getting into trouble, isn’t better to discipline the child (typically a dad behavior) than to emphasize with the child? The other problem with this argument is that it speaks of women as a whole not individually, so it will undoubtedly fail in certain situations. Case in point: Britney Spears.
The vast majority of women could not respect their man if he stayed home making domestic daddy while she hacked it through the corporate world: Perhaps this is true for the older generation, but from what I’ve seen from the younger generation (including myself) this does not prove true. It seems to be about even.
and the only women who prefer this situation are control freaks who want agreeable beta males that defer to their power: actually giving up ultimate power over how the children (the most important thing in most mom’s lives) are raised seems the exact opposite of control-freak.
No. Stay home on weekends, play with the kids, and help clean the house. I once had a client who kept referring to himself as ” Mr. Mom”. It made me nauseous, do I want to have a beer with that guy, hell no. What could he possibly talk about that interests me.
Unless you wear panties, no man should be a stay at home dad. No wonder we almost had a woman president.
FWIW, I don’t think that working from home and being a stay-at-home-dad are the same things. I work from home, but I’m sure not there taking care of the kids — I’m working.
Being a stay at home dad is fine, but your first responsibility is to provide for your family. If you can meet those needs, then yes it’s manly to spend your extra time with your family.
Doing what is necessary is manly, no matter what that thing is.
Taking care of business, is manly.
a few points. first puting the needs of your famaly and children above you takes real strangth, not always lift a log strangth, but more be thare trough tears vomit and drugery strong.
secondly the idea that aman is not as nutruring as a woman is a myth. the augument that “conditioning” has made men porly equipt to work with children is true only in the sence that “western culture” has foold itself in to thinking that.
And lastly as a male infint todaler teacher, I fermly beleve that men helping children to grow up strong, helthy, and well ajusted, is the most punk rock thing a man can do!
The best situation is where the man is the main provider for his family and his wife takes care of the home front. I’m not talking about the wife being “barefoot & pregenent” in the kitchen and standing two paces behind & to the left of her husband. No, I’m talking about a Proverbs 31 wife (real men love Jesus, too) who is akin to a First Sergeant to her husband’s role as Company Commander. The man should be making the rules and deciding the direction the family should go while the wife supports and implements those rules allowing the man to concentrate on being head of the household and providing for his family.
I got fired three months before my wedding, and my long-term plans to go to graduate school got shelved. I became a house husband while recovering from one job and trying to find the next steps.
No children yet, but I would have taken care of them, and done it gladly, because I know fathers are important.
I agree with Carl, men can raise kids, and should be more involved with their children. That’s manly.
A man’s job is to go to work and take care of his family.
While I love doing the king of things that a stay at home mom, or dad, would do (i.e. cooking, gardening, taking care of kids, puttering around the house, etc.), it’s always seemed to me that it’s the husbands job to be the bread-winner in the family,
What is “manly” is very much defined by the culture you are in. Gender roles develop based on a number of factors, many of them related to where your culture lives and how they subsist in the place they live. What is manly is not a fixed thing. What is considered masculine in one culture has a feminine connotation in another. What is masculine in one time period can become feminine in another time period. The Romans thought the consumption of beer to be effeminate and the consumption of wine as masculine. In some cultures, the traditional male garment is what we would call a dress. “Manly” is a bit of a moving target depending on your context.
Physiologically and psychologically, men are as capable of taking care of children as women. I do say that with one exception. Based on my reading and experience around kids that this is only true once the child is done breast feeding. There are clear developmental benefits for a child to breast feed and be with the mother for at least a year but probably two years. After that though, pop can be the equal of mom in child rearing.
The whole issue of whether or not being a SAHD is manly or not is more of an ideological abstraction than anything else. Where the rubber meets the road in the real world, people will do what is best for themselves and their families, even if that means breaking some arbitrary social convention. If what works for one family is for daddy to stay home and take care of the kids then that is what they’ll do.
I don’t really care whether or not anyone thinks I’m manly because I stay at home with my three year old. The fact of the matter is that it makes sense on a number of levels for me to be the one staying at home. We want one of us to be the person that raises our child. We have no family closer than 12 hours away. One of us has to be at home and my wife’s income is quite comfortable. I cannot command that sort of salary. Whether or not staying at home is manly is the least of my concerns. We live well and my daughter gets good care. Period. Space. Full Stop.
Here is some information about me:
Eagle Scout, Former Marine Corporal and 81mm Mortar squad leader, professional craft brewer, every lawn/yard tool I own runs on “man” power (reel mower, scythe, axe, crosscut saw etc) with the exception of my grandpa’s chainsaw, I smoke a pipe daily, I’ve been hot lather shaving since before it was trendy, I hunt, I fish, I’ve slaughtered and butchered pigs, I’ve worked in warehouses, a brewery, and as a carpenter’s helper. I’ve been a stay at home dad for two years.
@Travis
And the fact that you don’t care what anyone says about your decision speaks volumes about the kind of man you are, Travis. Good on you, brother.
It seems to me that anyone who believes that the “natural order” is for the man to work and the woman to stay at home because they think “that’s the way it’s always been” and will resist any changes to the larger society (not to your own lives, of course; I mean, that’s the point, do what you gotta do and what is right for your family) has an extremely narrow view of the world and of human history. And trying to hold on to an idealized past that never really existed will only disappoint you.
Boy is this ever a timely question for me. I have been struggling with this for some time now as I was recently diagnosed with a rare blood cancer and am no longer able to work. What is my role in the family now that I am no longer the “provider”?
I voted yes and heres why. I run the house like I ran my department in the cabinet shop where I worked until my diagnosis. The kids and I all have responsibilities that must be done each day. I have a garden that I tend which helps me “provide” for my family while my wife looks for ways to take up the slack financially. I still do what I can to maintain my “manliness”. I work on the van when needed, change the oil in my truck and teach my sons and daughter to do it too. I fix the plumbing, build the chicken coop, cut firewood… all the manly stuff I used to do around here, when I can. I also teach the kids the things that they will need to know to get along in the world as we homeschool too. I don’t do these things to be “manly”, I do them because they need to be done and it has fallen to me to do them.
I think that men can provide for their family in the home or at work and not be manly. They can gossip around the office or shop, or sit at home and play video games or surf the internet and neglect their responsibilities or they can step up to the plate and try their level best to hit the ball every time. Each day that we are given, we have to decide what we want to make of ourselves. I know men who talked a big talk but weaseled out of their child support payments, and I know men who have reenlisted in the National Guard knowing full well that they would be leaving their families to perhaps make the ultimate sacrifice. They each made a choice that day when they got up. The later surely seems to me to be the more manly, and I guess it all boils down to being responsible for you and yours.
I’ll pass the soap box on now…
As a woman who unabashedly has NO interest in staying home with kids (and there are more than just a handful of us out there!) what are we supposed to do if we want a family?
I have four options:
1. Make myself miserable by staying home with kids all day (not so good for kids)
2. Not have kids (best for the environment)
3. Get a nanny (ok option)
4. My partner/husband stays home with the kids and I do the work I love (good for kids, me and, as long as partner was into it, for him too).
Is it unwomanly NOT to want to stay home with kids or not want kids? I don’t think anybody except crazy Christian-right people would say I’m less of a woman for loving my work, so why should a man be less manly for wanting or needing to stay home with kids?
Staying at home with small children takes a certain kind of personality- one that I DO NOT have. If my husband or partner does, then he should do the job. As modern adults we should do what we’re good at, and what we love, if not, what was the point of all our forefathers and foremothers working so hard for equality, worker’s rights, etc. Certainly not to blindly imitate their tough lives.
Let’s all open our minds to the infinite ways we can all be human! I was raised by a very progressive community and I can say I’m the sanest person I know because of it. Subvert the dominant paradigm!
Women who say they won’t respect their husbands if the the husband stays at home while she goes to work drive me nuts. Staying at home with the kids, if you’re not just lounging around on your ass, IS HARD, CHALLENGING WORK.
If you’re a woman and can’t respect that, you’re crazy.
Raising children well and keeping the house in order is often harder and more draining than going to the office, fooling around with MineSweeper and internet porn, then having a leisurely lunch break and maybe checking some email after if the boss is watching. Those of you who have seen SAHDs all drained and “soft”, please remember how many trapped housewives in the 50’s were on Valium to escape from their oppressive lives! This is not a gender-exclusive thing. Staying at home is tough all over, and not everyone, male or female, can take it.
I actually know of more than one woman who recently divorced her husband because he not only expected her to care for the kids and keep the house clean, but to feed, clothe, and practically wash him too when he got home from work! (One guy’s contribution to childrearing was to spend maybe half an hour playing with the kid as long as the kid was clean and in a good mood, then handing the kid off to mom if it started getting disagreeable…) They said it was like having one more very big kid. Not very manly at all, I’d say.
Wow - my faith in the male gender has been restored! It’s great to see so many men so open to do what’s right for the family whatever it takes, whatever the role. I find that strong and sexy!
It had better be since I am one (man) and I keep my live-in ATM very happy.
dfjlaw and santa, you guys are bums, your kids are probably bad and your wives, well you are probably divorced. I thought I was pretty damned tough until I had to stay home with my kids. I left a “manly” job and other “manly” men were jealous that I was going to get to spend time with my newborn and toddler while they were growing up. Men do miss out on a lot of stuff. The money I have made in the past has made our financial situation pretty easy so I am able to afford this.
its all situational! and its all seasonal! sometimes situations happen or opportunities come a knockin! hey, if its to better the home team you gotta do what you gotta do…
i was workin, bring home most of the bacon and my work was not really making sense anymore and wasn’t very condusive with our new addition to the family. I was in retail management making about 60k a year. not to shabby for not having a college degree.
we came up with a plan that would take a lot of sacrifice : for the season. I was gonna take care of our son and go to school!
my wife is in a great position in marketing with a lot of opp. to grow. so we made the move. shoot, if you snagged up a good lady that’s doin in out there in tha real world and she’s makin it . its ok to let her do her thing…
here you go: who’s gonna raise your son to grow up to be a man? daycare??? I don’t think so…sometimes it takes MORE of a man to step up to the plate and do the dirty work…to get your team (family) where you want it to be . its easier to stand back and just work than do to something SO different.
it takes alot for someone who has never even had a father to step up to the plate and take one for the team. (someone who has no clue what to expect)…i can only be what I would have wanted… if yoU have the strength to do and be not what you have seen or didn’t have… I have learned more about patience, gentleness, and love in the past 10 monthes than I ever have in my life. these things make you A REAL MAN!!! but to say to lose manliness over a lifestyle change makes you less manly. PLEASE. ITS TAUGHT ME TO HOW TO BE A REAL MAN !!!!
Define manly?
Is it manly to work til odd hours of the night and have children who don’t know you? Not in my opinion.
Sometimes during the day, I’ll be playing tea time with my daughter. Some times I’m playing GI joes with my son. Other times I’m baking cookies for school functions. In my free time I’m at the shooting range or helping friends and neighbors with projects from sewing to rebuilding engines.
Does this make me more or less” manly” at times? according to gender roles, yes. But, we don’t follow gender roles here. I like to sew. I like box at our local gym. I like to bake cookies and make nice healthy meals for my babies and my wife.
I’ve never cut our lawn. My wife loves it. Its her “job” here. My wife has never cooked one meal in 14 years. I’ve done all the cooking. She has no clue how to fix a rip, let alone make an entire outfit from scratch. She taught me how to change brakes.
Is this not manly or womanly? probably not. But, people who don’t like our lifestyle can push off. Most people who have wuestioned it have been told their opinion doesn’t matter, and if they kept going, we disowned them. This includes a mother and father in law and two brothers. Its none of their business how we run our lives. We make more money on a single income by double than they do as a working couple but somehow they feel the need to lecture.
Anyhow, if you’re worried about it being “manly” my advice is to worry about how YOU feel about it and tell all the others to piss off.
I should add, my wife hated staying at home when she did it. She was clawing at the walls and crying by the time I got home. I gave up my six figure a year job so she could take her dream job, making six figures a year. Both of us could work, but we don’t think strangers should be raising our kids. If my wife loves to work and hates stayign at home, why shouldn’t we? Women fought for equal rights, and they have them. Anyone who thinks a woman can’t be a good breadwinner is a piece of sexest garbage imho. Anyone who thinks being a stay at home dad is a “lazy” job, is obviously so far away from reality, that no words will be able to correct their tiny mindset. Its hard work being a stay at home parent. When I’m not cooking, cleaning, teaching the alphabet, doing math, coloring barney, doing our daily tea time or gi joes, taking them to the childrens science museum and the zoo, I’m taking care of the wife. I get one day a month for 4 hours of “me time” where I can go to the shooting range ALONE. Can you, as a man opposed to stay at home dads honestly say you’re strong enough to lose yourself for the better of your entire family? I doubt it.