This is the twelfth post in a series about living Ben Franklin’s 13 virtues.
CHASTITY. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another’s peace or reputation.
Editor’s Note: Before we get to the post, allow me to head off the would be commenter, who, thinking himself beyond clever, posts something akin to “Benjamin Franklin wasn’t chaste! He was a womanizer!” In truth, this bit of popular knowledge has been greatly exaggerated. Please see here and here.
Also, as we have mentioned time and time again, Franklin openly admitted that he did not live the virtues perfectly. But he felt he was a far better man for having made the attempt to do so. Living the virtuous life doesn’t not mean attaining perfection, but striving to improve oneself.
Ahhh, chastity. A word that can make teenagers blush and grown men cringe. A word that conjures up thoughts of medieval belts, “true love waits” pledge cards, and ranting preachers. Many believe the concept of chastity has no place in a modern, enlightened society. Indeed, in many ways the virtue of chastity is the most difficult to write about. Unlike the other virtues, it is hard to define chastity apart from its relationship to religious beliefs. Yet, while the precise definition of chastity will vary from man to man, there are aspects of this virtue that all men, regardless of belief system, should aspire to.
In today’s sexualized society, promoting chastity is seen as prudish and old fashioned. In the eyes of many, promoting chastity on a men’s site will be seen as almost contradictory. Isn’t manliness all about the notches on your bedpost of the women you have conquered? We propose that manly sexuality shouldn’t be about the number of women a man beds; rather, it should be about focusing one’s sexuality in meaningful relationships.
Sex as a Consumer Good
Sex, it seems, is everywhere. It pops up in every nook and cranny of our day to day lives. We see sex on our television, in our magazines, and on our computers. It is used to sell everything from shampoo to jeans. While once viewed as a sacred mystery, today it has become just another consumer product that can be bought or sold. Sure, people have sold sex since the beginning of history (they don’t call prostitution the oldest profession for nothing). What’s different now is that the very idea of sex has been commercialized and in the process cheapened.
People today approach sex just as they would approach buying a widget. The focus is on YOUR satisfaction and YOUR pleasure. A man thus fantasizes about his next “purchase.” After that hook-up gives him the pleasure he was seeking, he shops around until he finds another person that can satisfy the urge. When he gets tired of that woman or he sees a better and higher end model, he trades-in that person and goes after the upgrade. The problem is that people aren’t things; they’re, well, people. They have hopes, dreams, feelings, and aspirations just like you do.
The Problem with the Hook-Up Culture
On college campuses hooking-up has replaced dating. Guys seldom ask girls on out real dates: outings they have planned ahead of time and which involve just the two of them. And they even less frequently ask that girl to be their girlfriend and enter into monogamous relationships. Instead women and men hook up at bars, Greek houses, and parties. They have their way with each other and then hope never to have a run-in around campus. College is seen as the time to sow one’s wild oats before settling down at some yet to be determined, but definitively far off time.
While many (maybe most?) men see all this as harmless fun, the reality is that there are negative consequences to these hit and run sexual encounters. In truth, “casual sex” is an oxymoron; there is no such thing.
While for some men, sex is just another recreational activity like going to a baseball game, in reality sex is a powerful part of the human experience. Whether you are religious or not, it is wrong to strip sex of any kind of sacredness. The reason sex feels so fantastic is biological propagation insurance; after shooting wooly mammoths and pulling up roots all day, the human race needed a push to overcome the tiredness, get jiggy with it, and perpetuate the human race. Sex is not just erotic and hot, it’s the way in which human life is created. Regardless of how you think the human race came to be, the creation of life is surely imbued with power and mystery. Whether you want it to be or not, sex forms a union between you and the woman you are with. It’s the joining of two bodies together. Powerful hormones and feelings are released when you have sex. Evolution set up these feelings with the intention of bringing two people together to care for a new human life. It’s ridiculous to unite with a woman in this powerful coupling and then change partners like you’re changing a shirt.
Even if you wouldn’t use the word “sacred” with “sex,” it should at least be seen as “special.” Keeping it special means placing some boundaries around it. The extent of these boundaries will vary from man to man. But there are real reasons for not diluting it beyond measure:
Cheap Sex is Crap Sex. Sex is pretty much the most vulnerable thing you can do. You’re totally naked, worried about your performance, and not to be crude, but sticking your body part into another person. Good sex therefore involves a lot of trust. A trust born of real love and intimacy. The kind of intimacy born of late night conversations, dinner dates, fights, and reconciliations. If you’re having sex with someone you don’t love, you’re simply using them as tool for your pleasure. You might as well be doing it with an inflatable doll. The more you are in love with someone, the more fantastic sex is. The more commonplace sex becomes, the less spectacular it will be. This is the “dullness” Ben was referring to.
Casual Sex Disrespects Women. Even if you can get your jollies from a one night stand, no strings attached, that doesn’t mean your partner feels the same way. While you may be in it for the good time, the woman you hook-up with may develop feelings for you. I know there are woman who have no problem with random flings. But I also know more women who want to believe they’re down with hooking-up but feel hurt afterwards. I knew a lot of women in college who had random hook-ups, after which the guys didn’t call, and who suffered from bouts of depression and angst. They never connected the dots, but I have no doubt there was a correlation. And yes, this goes for guys too. You might hook-up with a girl who’s just leading you on, and get your heart crushed when you realize you’ve been played. Wait until your relationship is committed before being intimate.
Casual Sex Doesn’t Prepare You for Sex in a Real Relationship. Those who encourage men to have multiple sexual partners, argue that if you only have sex with a few, or heaven forbid, just one, sexual partner, you won’t know what kind of stuff you like and how to please the partner you finally do settle down with. On VH1’s recent documentary on sex, Woody Allen compares this to getting your driver’s license without having a learner’s permit. But casual sex is ill preparation for the monogamous variety. Good sex requires communication and a willingness to sometimes delay one’s pleasure for your partner’s benefit. But casual sex involves little communication and little incentive to maximize your partner’s pleasure. Sure, you want to show her a good time. But you’re mostly focused on getting off yourself, and hey, you’re never going to see this woman again, so if it’s so-so for her, who cares?
Related to this, is the argument people make for not saving sex for marriage. Now I know this definition of chastity is not embraced by many men. But those who do embrace it are often berated for choosing a life partner without knowing if the two of you are sexually compatible. I think this argument is total bunk. While it makes sense theoretically, how would it play out practically? Does this mean that if a man is totally in love with a woman, and then they have sex and it’s awkward, he would kick her to the curb and scrap the whole relationship? I have honestly never seen this actually happen. Hey, here’s a novel idea: How about if two people are sexually incompatible they work on their communication, maybe even go to therapy together? Pretty mind blowing, huh?
Furthermore, as my friend Dave is fond of saying, “Sex is like ice cream. The more flavors you sample, the harder it becomes to settle on one flavor for the rest of your life.”
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@Brett – I don’t think its a matter of expecting your partner to meet your every whim, but rather, the things a person is looking for in a relationship. If the outdoorsy person was looking for significant other with whom to do those outdoors activities with, then obviously dating an indoorsy person would be counter productive. If that outdoors person just wanted a someone special with no particular connection to the outdoors, then the mis-match can work. Or, if he or she decided that this particular partner was worth sacrificing that desire for. I feel that its important for a person to know what they want from a relationship, and work towards obtaining that. No match will ever be 100% perfect, so we decide which areas are the most important to us and choose based on that.
Also, your statement about sexual preferences and personality being linked is just a stereotype. You may be surprised at some of the sexual secrets the people around you may keep. You just never know if the guy at the watercooler is into S&M, or if the friendly neighbors next door are big-time swingers. A lot of people who lead these lifestyles choose to keep it secret because society can be fairly judgmental about it.
And actually, that’s exactly the point I tried to make with the food analogy. The closer a person sticks to a healthy diet, the better. And yet, we don’t, not even close. Junk food has zero health benefits but we still indulge in it. The only reason why is because we enjoy it. Yet, aside from the health guru’s and certain doctors, people aren’t out there decrying candy bars and sodas. No one would look twice at a young, fit, healthy man or woman eating junk. And yet, the people who do indulge in sex purely because we enjoy it are looked down upon and judged. Casual sex may also have zero benefits, but if the people engaging in it can do so responsibly, then what’s the harm?
@Brett: My point is that not all casual sex is disrespectful and not everyone is cut out for relationships. I’ll agree that sex often occurs without any clearly stated intentions and there are two people to blame for that. I’m an open and honest person, so it’s normally pretty obvious or directly stated that I’m not interested in anything beyond a normal friendship and sex, but it’s pretty ridiculous to imply that it’s my responsibility to alert my partner that my life is going to go on as usual afterward. If anyone is truly obligated to issue warnings, I would think it ought to be the presumptuous partner bringing expectations to the table.
ab’s post about “dating” is spot on and I agree with Marty that you have underestimated the maturity of many casual sex partners.
Oh really? Why don’t you talk about how it is immoral to eat grains that we haven’t lovingly farmed from a local patch of land. Or how we should raise our own live stock and and kill the animals ourselves to gain appreciation to the beauty of life. Perhaps you would like to go into how many men loose out by not building the homes in which they live, thereby forgoing a valuable skill and loosing appreciation for the simpler things in life. Yeah, sorry to break it to you buddy but all that crap just doesn’t fly, and neither does your analogous argument about sex. Frankly sex is every day becoming more and more of a simple commodity traded on the world market, and thats not going to change any time soon.
well, while i found the article a good read i also found it completely void of anything scientific. to me it read like a conservative christian trying not to sound like one. being a scientist (anthropologist) i know that monogomy amoung humans is not how nature intended things. studies have been done to prove that humans aren’t monogomous by nature. furthermore these studies have shown that it’s women that actually instigate the cheating no really it’s true. we’ve found that women want to marry a provider. this someone who can provide a good life for her and the family. this isn’t the person she intends to have children with though. for that she’ll go out and find other men for. now i could go into countless boring details about how this has been proven and whatnot but i won’t. i mean hey, i love it when i have to research something and i always try to treat others how i wish to be treated. also one more unrelated tidbit for the ladies out there. stand up, take charge, and liberate. why? because the reason why breast cancer rates are so high is because women have been forced into a male dominated and male designed career track. it’s been proven that women who have more children younger see huge drops in breast cancer rates. it’s starts at a 50% drop if you have one child before 25 and then continues to drop almost exponentially from there. so well, i hope i did my part to piss a bunch of people off with truth that real media won’t publish. hmmmpf.
Damn, I hate this kind of posts… What the hell am I doing here anyway?!?
OK, thanks for the ideas from another point of view… Bye, now…
With regards to khayman’s comment–
Yes, I’ve heard the “scientific” view that monogamy is an unnatural state for humans. I have been involved with religious/occult groups that agree with that, and have lived accordingly. If they get married, it’s OK if either partner goes out and plays the field. And over the years, each one of those arrangements blew up, causing emotional damage to the original partners, their kids, and most of those who were sexually involved with either partner. I’m sorry–I know what biologists say, but I see no empirical evidence that perpetually keeping one’s options open in a relationship actually has any benefit. There is an emotional component that goes beyond reproduction, or even sexual/hormonal desire.
I think this was a great post. I commented in my own blog last year about Ariel Levy’s book “Female Chauvinist Pigs”, which addresses women’s ideas of sexuality in a post-feminist society. She comments, rather appropriately, that society sends a double message to girls–one is that you have to be sexy and desirable to be valuable. The other is not to have sex because it’s bad. Has there been any attempt in recent years to reconcile the reality of hormonal desire to actual love and respect in a relationship?
I don’t understand how you can talk about casual sex without bringing up disease. With thirty to fifty percent of the hookup population carrying dangerous and sometimes lifelong STDs (herpes, HPV etc.) your chances of making yourself ill are astronomically high. These infections are linked to a host of serious illnesses along with the ‘ordinary’ symptoms. When you have sex with someone there are two things nature wants to accomplish: reproduction and transmission. Regardless of your rationale for having sex, the physical universe is busy making sure that certain things happen to you if you engage in sex. If you engage in serial sex with a host of partners, the universe has plans for you – as a viral compound.
This is just one of the greatest websites on the internet. This article was fantastic and so are so many of the other articles. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Benjamin Franklin wasn’t chaste! He was a womanizer!
@Marty-I guess my point is that I think sex should be something more special than an alternative to movie night. I think there’s something to be said that when making love to your beloved you know you have only shared this experience with her, or a few others. But I know we won’t agree on this. I do appreciate, however, you sharing a different perspective, outside my worldview, in a reasonable manner.
@Khayman-Monogamy doesn’t exist in the natural world-so what? Computers, houses, cars, and a whole host of stuff doesn’t exist outside of humankind either. Should we not go to college because no squirrel has ever graduated from one? The idea of evolution is that we have progressed into the most complex beings of all the animal world. Unlike the beasts, we don’t have to give in to any natural urge. We have rational minds that can make decisions based on things like love and respect.
@Rene-I didn’t bring up STD’s because I feel like they already get a ton of play and most people are aware of them. The theoretical side of why to avoid casual sex does not get discussed as often. But you are right, STD’s and pregnancy are very valid reasons on their own. I was just reading in my Men’s Health about how STD’s like Herpes can even be transmitted through deep kissing. Yuck.
Hi!
“We propose that manly sexuality shouldn’t be about the number of women a man beds…”
To have any chance at all for your idea to succeed, YOU need to realize that Human bodies aren’t designed to fit the idea. Our bodies have had 5 million+ years of development, and the end result is that our bodies try to be semi-monogamous. Men’s bodies tend to want to have offspring with more than one woman. Woman’s bodies also want to do the same, but probably not with as many different partners as men do.
If you explain these facts to those you are trying to reach, it will help them understand why they intellectually WANT to abstain ’til they’re married, and WANT to be monogamous, and why it is so difficult. They will intellectually understand that their PHYSICAL cravings for sex, and sex with different people, are normal.
For your ideas to work, people’s minds will have to FIGHT their bodies, which is very, very difficult to do. MOST of the time, with deep-seated biological demands, like for sex, the biological demands wins out over their intellectual logical decisions. ONLY by explaining the facts, and giving them lots of examples, will they have a chance to overrule their bodies with their minds.
There are many good reasons to wait for sex, and to be monogamous, but it won’t happen if we don’t face up to the facts of our biological destinies.
cliff
YIP
I wonder how many men would want to marry a woman who was wilder than they were, and benefit from her experience, and know that they were being compared to their wife’s past. Good luck measuring up.
@ab: you are totally right. The world of courting is long gone for better and worse. Trying to ask girls out for dates does guarantee that you will never get them. The thing is, the responsibility for the existence of the current hook up culture is due to girls/women. The truth is, the only guys trying to date in college these days are losers that even other loser chicks are unattracted to.
@brigid: you asked the question “Has there been any attempt in recent years to reconcile the reality of hormonal desire to actual love and respect in a relationship?”
National Geographic had an article about the hormonal differences within the body between the initial passionate love a person feels and the bond of a long relationship. here’s the link: http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/health-and-human-body/human-body/true-love.html
i don’t know if that answers the question you were asking, but it’s an interesting article nonetheless.
I have to agree with the anthropologist. There’s a a lot of supposition here but little substance. For example you assume that the woman is being used in a one night stand. I heard from students on many occasion that it was the woman who was out for the joy and wanted nothing further to do with the guy the next day. Also what about mutuality? You never allow for the possibility that two people can chose to come together in a sexual union and amicably part with the possibility of a future hook up or not.
There are also not stats to back up your statement of how common this is. I heard the same argument in the 80’s and yet people are still dating today. I see them in the movies, in the restaurants, at the fairs, etc. Also most women I talk to say they do not just go with a guy to have sex without some kind of relationship first. Before you say I contradict myself let me say that the one night stands mentioned above are rare and usually with someone they know.
I also find your definition of chastity to be sorely lacking. We’ve seen the studies that show “christian” teens who take a purity pledge yet engage in anal and oral sex. True chastity is not just about behavior but attitude as well. It’s not just about sex but how one carries oneself , dresses, talks, places they go and kinds of things they surround themselves with. Back in the day it wasn’t just being a virgin that was important but acting like one and presenting like one as well. Your focus on PVI (penis vagina intercourse) as the indicator of sex has grossly limited your argument.
But hey that’s just my opinion…I could be right.
You neglected to mention an important point. Marital relations are an aspect of life not confined to the bedroom. The relative modesty of how they are carried out, bears a strong impact on the strength of the civilization. History has borne the truth out: civilizations with a strong family unit endure. Licentious, adulterous nations fall.
I’m a fan of this article.
I think the vehement dissenters simply don’t want to be told that they’re doing something that is frowned upon by others. That’s really what this boils down to. But when you’re living a lifestyle contrary to the popular mainstream of society (in my case, saving sex for marriage with the girl I’m currently courting–and, I plan to ask her father for her hand, haha! I’m so against-the-grain) you get used to people laughing at you for being different.
In short, people who don’t agree with this post… welcome to the world where you can’t have everything you want and get of scot-free. It’s called reality.
I’m not sure if you noticed, but you said sex “pops up in every nook and cranny”.
Great article. I think the only thing more deleterious to a good sexual relationship than no experience is experience.
also, i have noticed a lot of commenters venerating the wisdom of the human body in it’s indication to procreate with many partners. i don’t know where you folks got the idea that your bodies’ base urges are a good foundation for decision-making, but you might want to consider the unfortunate outcomes of indulging other animal inclinations. perhaps eating nothing but Super Value Meals floats your boat; is it wise to cast caution to the wind? until you weigh three million pounds? what about when your baby has been screaming and you want to give him a good hard shake to shut him up? we all know discipline ultimately brings the most satisfying rewards; to exclude sexual behavior from that basic law displays poor reasoning.
for those of you who are inclined to let your neurotransmitters call the shots, you might want to switch from sex to heroin. less emotional risk, better high.
also, for those whose comments are particularly brazen and disrespectful (you know who you are), i hope you are as honest with your potential sexual partners as you are when commenting here.
@Amy-Your comments: pure awesomeness. You very succinctly got to heart of exactly what I have been thinking reading these comments.
It’s nice to know that some random guy with a fixation for the post-victorian, american west, idea of propriety is going to dispense “wisdom” unaffected by sexual psychology or secular thought. This website is just more social conservatives masturbating to John Wayne while declaring that this is the only way to be a man. I’m sorry but your idea of manhood and sexual ethics belong in the Fundamentalist community or the Fifties. or better yet why don’t you put them back where you got this absurd idea of “manliness”, in Victorian fiction and christian-temperance tracts.
In reading, many good suggestions and debates have spawned about many of the angles, but I’ve yet to see what an unbrainwashed woman thinks.
I lost my virginity at 15 to a guy I knew for about 3 months. We did homework together and hung out for those three months before we has vaginal intercourse, but we were very vocal about neither one of us had a sexual experience. between he and I, we learned many things about the opposite gender. He learned that women fart, crap, burp, stink, and aren’t as perfect as your average super model.
I learned that men can communicate, show emotion, and display what they are feeling without having a predetermined set of standards to follow.
He and I were together for a year and a half when he started to cheat on me. Of course, my first reaction to this was “What am I doing wrong?”. I know this was spawned from my upbringing by my grandparents about a woman’s place in relationships. Now, I know that isn’t really how many relationships work these days, but I was obviously young and undereducated about sexual relation growing up in a Christian house hold. I find later on that he had been cheating on me because he wanted to know what sex with someone else was like, but not because I had failed to perform or failed to communicate. It was his curiousity.
Admittedly, after that relationship, I found a few casual sexual partners. Some I was active with for a few months, several were one nighters. By this time, I had been with roughly 15 sexual partners by the age of 17.
Through those experiences, I had learned what some guys liked and many were vocal if you were “doing it wrong”. I felt hesitant to inform my partner when he was doing it wrong and that led to many misunderstandings. They were eventually worked out, but usually we both were to blame and accepted that.
The last few relationships I had before my current were what I felt were the fine tunings on what I want and a way for me to develop and define what I enjoyed sexually. These relations ships lasted for many months with each partner and only one I regret not talking more indepth to.
When I met my future spouse, it was at a local coffee shop that I had been known to frequent. He was wearing some eclectic clothing and I found it so amusing I had to talk to him. After some coffee, we went back to my place and we talked about what both of us were looking for in a relationship. Both of us were tired of looking for someone from previous bad experiences and piss poor communication.
Well, we had sex and I could tell he was less experienced and he could tell I was more experienced. Knowing this, he asked me to show him what I like and it shocked me that he cared. It was the first time someone had vocalized their interest in my gratification.
Over the next few months, we saw each other more frequently. I had a few personal emergencies and he was accepting of them and even helped. And all because we could talk to each other. But before you start spouting that it should have come before, we have both enjoyed learned more about each other during our four years and satisfying our physical needs as well.
I can say that the few virgins I had been with were nothing I wanted in a long term relationship. That was one of the few important things. I didn’t want someone who worshiped sex and decided to wait until marriage. My first time hurt and was extremely lame compared to others I had been with. And being with a virgin was depressing to me. It made me fee like we both had to work harder at making him better.
Now, you could theorize that if I had waited then we could have worked it out and explored each other together, but with everyone striving to be independent and self-sufficient, it would be unrealistic to me in my life to have to go through that.
It was liberating to lose my virginity. It was liberating to have sex with men. And still is. And my future spouse couldn’t be happier with us. We both love talking till the wee hours of the morning and learning more about each other. It may be a unique relationship, but the idea of pre-marital sex doesn’t sound so comforting when sex is an important role in any long term relationship.
I guess to use the mentioned ice-cream analogy, I’ll say this about myself.
I’ve tried many flavors. Some were vanilla, some were too exotic. There were some with nuts and a few with fruit. Without trying different flavors, how would I have ever found my favorite? If I had only eaten vanilla ice-cream from the begining and never deviated, I would then assume that this is what all ice-cream is and make it my favorite based on the only flavor provided. But this isn’t the case. You have to try a few flavors before you find the one that tickles your tongue. And by sampling other flavors, you are bound to find a lot you don’t/didn’t like along the way to discovery.
And I’m not knocking those who’s favorite ice-cream is vanilla. It’s personal choice as is your opnion on manliness. Even though I’m not an advocate of the article, it gives you the insight into someone who doesn’t share your same feelings or views. And you should respect that. I know I didn’t read “Do this m y way or you fail at life and being a man.” If I had, there would be a few hundred comments from all over the internet in less intelligent responses.
Thank you for taking the time to explain why you chose to wait. I respect that, but also understand that by writing something like this, you are inviting anyone who isn’t you to voice their opinions. And sometimes rather loudly.
Did you know that many animals, parrots for instance, are monogamous. We can most certainly expect more from human beings -unless you want to be compared to a dog.
@Amy
If you listen to your body’s urges you are going to be eating well.
The great thing about moderation is it makes you a better person than abstaining. One is far easier than the other.
This whole post is full of useless metaphors and doesn’t even discuss the virtue as it relates to old Bennie. You mention it once and don’t tear apart his explanation.
Also, most of your virtue posts make it seem like your view of the world is formed by the OC and the Real World.
While I definitely agree with the thoughts expressed in this post, I don’t think it has to be so long and drawn out.
Here is a more short and sweet reason for not having pre-marital sex: God said not to do it….so don’t do it.
But most will anyways, because they cannot put aside their stubborn “want-to’s” or the traditions of the time and listen to the guidance our Creator has given in his Holy Word.
@William,
I agree that if you listen to the full range of your body’s communications you will discover that eating well is most enjoyable, as is sex in the context of a committed-for-life relationship. I, myself, eat extremely well, avoiding sugar and animal products and eating more green vegetables than a cow. I also married as a virgin.
As a kid, I pretty much ate pop-tarts and microwave quesadillas. That was my instinct. I also got tingly in my girl-parts when I saw pictures of Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Using sex as a method to attempt physical gratification is childish and ultimately, I believe, the costs outweigh the benefits. Same with the pop-tarts. I can see the appeal, but, people, grow up.
Cheap sex is demeaning to men too.
I think the worst things that has been endemic of recent times is that noxious idea of “friends with benefits”. I run from women who bring that up.
Chastity is not a good thing. Denying yourself one of life greatest pleasures, sex, is doing yourself a disservice. You should be responsible about it and you should partner with people who are equally responsible. Doing it with someone you love DOES enhance the experience but don’t short sell the thrill of a one night stand as that can be mind numbingly satisfying in its own right.
On another note, from the tone of many of the “save it for a committed relationship” comments I suspect the real impetus for taking this attitude is a religious one. If your religion forbids casual sex then don’t do it. For those of us who are not bound by such beliefs, don’t deny your body one of life’s greatest gifts. Have good, safe sex, be considerate of your partner and revel in the joy of what your body can experience.
Personally I had 30 partners before finally settling down and getting married and I am better for it.
@ Amy,
You are missing the whole point of the article at hand:
Our society has mislead you to believe that “free and unrestricted” sex is the way to be “Cool” and in the “in” crowd. Im sure you’ve reaped many benifets from getting your beef curtains pounded over and over again, and I have no doubt that you were “safe” about it. But the point still stands, We are human, vastly different in many ways from our animal cousins, especaily when it comes to sex. I would bet you that the majority of men would not enjoy being with a woman that has had 30 partners (is your husband even aware of that fact?), and the minority that would enjoy it would not be the kind of man that you would want to support you anyways. Im not saying that eveyone should be perfect, and I myself have had sex before I was married. The idea of throwing yourself around to many different people is the problem and what is portrayed to our youth today. That mentality that you defend is turning our populace into a society without morals (and im not speaking on religious terms). Besides, what could you have been doing with all that time you were getting your brains screwed out? Getting an education, or bettering yourself? Or how bout not giving people the impresion that you are a flimsy whore? You’d be surprised what a network of people (lets say, for example, a workplace) can find out. Boning 30 people in your hay day might have been fun for 2 minutes at a time, but reality will slap you hard when your life is adversly affected by the those same decisions.
@Fry,
I have two questions.
1) Why is it such a bad thing to uphold the values that our fathers and grandfathers held?
2) What should a man be like in your opinion in today’s society?
And yes my name is really John Wayne….my father decided to name me after an actor who stood for many of the ideals supported on this website and I am damn proud of it too.
1. They are no the values of my grandfathers. Not to mention that those values were based on the times and information at hand. As our experience and knowledge grows then so does our ability to assess value.
2. There is no one definition of what a man should be like. That is the problem here. you are using this victorian idea of gender roles to say “This is the only way to be a man”. It disgusts me. It’s narrow, xenophobic, and absurd. If you want to be a man like that and follow that specific culture then more power to you, but don’t impune anyone else’s manhood for living their lives the best way they see fit.
This whole site reeks of John Wayne’s problem. He was a draft dodger, a rich snob, and as much as a hollywood club hopper as the next movie-star. He felt guilt his whole life over the fear that he wasn’t manly. That’s why he devoted his life to bad films (isn’t it lucky for his success that most stars had been drafted) and authoritarian politicians so he could appear rough and brave. He was a hypocrite and too scared to come to terms with his own lifestyle, there is nothing worth admiring about him.
The problem is that this site is based around a narrow and outdated notion of gender roles. This site is trying to say that there is only one way a man should behave and it’s this idea I pulled out of watching westerns while reading Kipling. Gender roles are antiquated notions from the ignorant past, there is no specific way a man should behave.
Then we get into this religious moralizing about sex that out and out lies. Cheap sex is not crappy sex for everyone. Having multiple partners will no ruin monogamous sex for most people. This is what you get when you deal in shady absolutes, you get exposed as a liar.
Then we have the comments filled with Jesus-Freaks and a woman who calls someone who enjoys sex a whore. I thought america had purged itself of such inane puritanical ideology during prohibition. Again, if you deal in absolutes with no reasoning or science behind it all you are doing is lying through your teeth based on your own limited sexual experience.
So until the author is a degreed sexologist or allows competing views to be present all we have is some rural minded christian who thinks there is such a thing as an “american culture” preaching about how you should save it for Jesus…whoops, I meant marriage.
@James K.
“So until the author is a degreed sexologist or allows competing views to be present……..”
Ummm, what would you call the comment section? You know the part where douche bags like you get to say your piece?
@Kate McKay
Ah yes, the classic retort of douchebag. You completely disassembled my argument with reason, logic, and fact. Good job, you are a credit to your race/religion/nation. Though next time at least keep me in suspense before dropping such a well reasoned bomb.
Oh, and the comments are just that, comments. I was referring to an article on the site with opposing views.
@James K-There was no point in taking on your argument. Enough has already been said one both sides. I was merely addressing your complaint that both sides aren’t presented. Perhaps you aren’t familiar with the concept of a blog. Allow me to educate you-on a blog a person typically presents their opinion, and then in the comments section people are free to agree, disagree, and present counterarguments. It’s a forum. This is an opinion piece, not an entry in a textbook, and thus presents only one side on an issue. I hope you never open a newspaper; the Op-Ed section would give you fits.
And the “douche bag” wasn’t a retort. I simply don’t know how else to label someone who is so insecure in his arguments he must resort to exaggerated language and rail against the absence of logic and science and yet not include any himself.
I detailed my logic. The author is drawing only from anecdotal evidence and their own sexual history. That is not how to evaluate a psychological topic. It’s discussion on the porch quality, but instead of admitting limited knowledge the author speaks in universals. My second point of logic, when you deal in universals you will be called out on exceptions and it makes your claims false. My language is flamboyant, theirs is absolute. If you would like I can also include links that contain testimony and psychological studies pointing to individuals who have had robust sexual encounters and have not fallen prey to any of the author’s bogeymen.
Also, I wouldn’t toss around the word insecure on a site whose purpose seems to be telling other people their not manly, but they can teach you to be.
Found your blog, what a refreshing find. Will be sharing this with many that I know.
Seems like someone didn’t get any at community college.
Another dubious non-theological aspect of promiscuity is the resources aspiring ‘Don Juans’ expend at bars, fighting, bench-pressing, and all other ’signaling’ methods embraced to garner attention from women. In my humble opinion the resources young guys spend performing these tasks is extremely irrational from an economic perspective. This even applies to those who place an astronomical value on sex , since the hook-up culture referred to in the blog evolves from keg-stands to
ostentatious displays of wealth as individuals age, so those young men who choose not to invest in human capital end up celibate or with increasingly less desirable partners as time progresses, because of their low earning potential
JamesK, I’m always curious why people like you with their smarmy little attitude bother to post a comment at a site that seems to be so beneath you. You’re just oozing with puss-filled beta-male insecurity.
“The problem is that this site is based around a narrow and outdated notion of gender roles. This site is trying to say that there is only one way a man should behave and it’s this idea I pulled out of watching westerns while reading Kipling.”
@JamesK — There’s a whole world of blogs, TV shows, movies and other media promoting the viewpoints of promiscuousness, metrosexualism, ungodliness, irrisponsibility and indifference. If that’s the life you want, go for it. We’re not stopping you. Just let us live the way we want to as well.
@the McKays — Keep it up
Phenomenal post. I couldn’t agree more. Our culture needs a revolution… and people have no clue, nor do they care, of or about the current state of things.
It’s a broken, broken world – it’s awesome to see some Truth once in a while.
Chastity is moral sexuality. All people are called to chastity. As I happen to be married (lucky me!), sexual encounters with my wife are moral and thus chaste.
I’m not merely against extramarital sex, I’m against dating and going steady. Wind sprints and up-downs are practice drills for football. Batting cages and fielding practice are practice drills for baseball. Suicides and free throws are practice drills for basketball.
Going steady is a practice drill for divorce. Divorce is NEVER harmless. In the very best of situations, it is merely the least of all evils.
If you’re not courting, your social engagements with the opposite sex should be in group settings.
Sex always involves communication. One thing it always says is, “I give myself completely, entirely, and wholly to you.” This is only truly mutually beneficial when it is true. If you give yourself completely, entirely, and wholly to somebody else later on, then it’s a lie to BOTH partners and yourself. That is the true dishonesty of hooking up (the truth is, I’m not all yours) and contraception (all of me is yours, except for fertility).
So what if hook ups are popular? Vomitoriums were popular in Rome, as was the practice of abandoning infants of an undesirable gender. Not long ago, sooty smokestacks were popular, because they were a sign of progress. More recently, so was smoking. A thing does not become a good just because it’s popular.
So what if people can’t live up to the ideal of chastity? Heck, people don’t even all live up to the ideals of avoiding theft and murder. Do we then suggest that there’s not much point in telling people not to kill and steal, because you can’t stop the ones who want to do it? Self-control and discipline are good things in any arena.
Really, what kind of freedom is it when what you pursue enslaves you?
I have to disagree. I did my thing for quite a bit of time, and when I got married I was comfortable in that I had done everything there was to do, for me. I got it out of my system.
By contrast, my wife was chaste and had only been with like 3 guys. She got curious, because she hadn’t been with many, and cheated on me. Now we’re divorced.
As a side note, I challenge you to tell me Cassanova was not one of the manliest human beings alive.
Nice post! A few points:
This idea that chastity is somehow unnatural for men is strange. It assumes that a male is essentially an irrational conduit of his penis and that he must follow its guidance if possible. I think some men might take issue with that! As several commenters have pointed out, just because you have the urge doesn’t make it advantageous or ‘right’ in some deep biological sense. Your sperm might reach lots of ladies while you as an individual might die/become diseased in the process – nature doesn’t care – but you might! I wouldn’t rely on biological imperatives for individual moral guidance.
I also find it interesting that the ‘natural promiscuity argument’ tends to emphasize the glories of male promiscuity. Talk to any man who’s discovered his wife has been cheating on him (and this is increasingly common). If nature hates monogamy so much, why aren’t they guys cool with it when their woman cheats? Why aren’t they encouraging it – just for variety’s sake?
Sure, sometimes sex is just a thrill between near-strangers but for those who’ve had great sex, it gets real depth and power in a committed relationship. The kind of desire that can span a stream of arguments, the details of daily life, and waning physical beauty is more than the thrill of conquest. It is the intense, immediate knowledge that someone who actually knows you – the imperfect and incomplete you – wants you specifically. There is no greater ‘yes’!
Many times, the best judge of something can be learned from those who rail against it. A good post in many ways.
A man bridles his passions and controls them. An animal acts out his passions.
I choose to be a man.
Everyone knows that ALL girls want and enjoy sex…its a biological fact…the reason things are like this now is because women want it that way and ENJOY casual sex….
I thought this article was very good but something needs to discussed a bit more and that is love. It was mentioned in the original article a few times but never defined or seriously discussed. Those who promoted the promiscuous point of view never mentioned it or talked about it except to say that they thought you could be promiscuous and then transition to monogamy no problem.
The big problem as I see it is that being unchaste makes you the type of person who finds true love repulsive. So what is true love? St. Thomas Aquinas points out that the pagan Aristotle perceived two kinds of love. The first kind of love (which I will call desire) is the love of something because of what it gives us. I love good food because it tastes good and makes me feel good. The second kind of love (which I will simply call love) is when we love something for it’s own sake and not for what it gives us – and this is the starting point of friendship.
If you really love someone though you don’t just wish them well, you actually give of yourself for the sake of their own true happiness. How much you love is measured by how much you give.
This points to the problem of lust and why being unchaste makes love repulsive. Several people have brought up the idea of needing to find out if they’re “sexual compatible” with the other person, that they learned some really neat sex tricks from other partners or porn, that wide-oats need to be sowed, etc. The problem with all of these is that it’s all about providing pleasure, ultimately for yourself. Even the people who want to provide pleasure to their partner get a great deal of pleasure from the pride of “performing well” and from the gratitude that they receive. But none of these things involve sacrifice. None of these things involve giving up what you have for the good of another.
The problem with promiscuity is that something can create a new life and unite two people together in an intimate way that involves (at least) two people and uses it for one’s own person pleasure. That’s called being selfish. And that is why unchastity is not manly. Because men think of others before themselves. And men who are great lovers reserve their first thoughts for the beloved. And people who think like that and love like that give their bodies totally to the one whom they have already totally committed their lives.
Funny, all the armchair psychologists trying to read your mind – you got burned in a relationship. You also “didn’t get any at community college.”
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